TP52s

[Shife]

Originally Posted by mighetto

When Hillery takes charge you are toast She is advised by the same company advising US Sailing. Top down decision making.. plantations.. what a hoot. God bless MLK.

Frank L. Mighetto

And yet again Frank responds with incoherent babble.....

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

God bless MLK.

...and God help FLM

[frankofile]

Originally Posted by mighetto

When Hillery takes charge you are toast She is advised by the same company advising US Sailing. Top down decision making.. plantations.. what a hoot. God bless MLK.

What in hell is the meaning of all this?

[fatdog]

From SA this morning Farr Designed TP52 RUSH at KWRW...sweet...

[mholguin]

Not sweet at all. The Macs can go faster and with less crew. Also the crew of the TP-52s are dumb criminals, whilst those crewing on Mac26 are Heaven's Angels...


OMG what the !@*#& am I saying?!?!?

[fatdog]

[/size]

Originally Posted by mholguin

Not sweet at all. The Macs can go faster and with less crew. Also the crew of the TP-52s are dumb criminals, whilst those crewing on Mac26 are Heaven's Angels...


OMG what the !@*#& am I saying?!?!?

oooh..you might be right..




fom savyoutlook.com

[marshmat]

Fatdog. I find it intriguing that we never see a photo of a Mac26 on plane in a rear view. Is this because the cooling stream pouring out the back of the outboard isn't very photogenic? Or is it just that nothing else can run fast enough to get a rear-view of this amazing trailerable lump of high-speed plastic?

[fatdog]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Frank, looks like you have been bested and one-upped.

There is now a new Future of Yacht Design (FOYD) website....

Introducing the Tackton 40....

http://danielsimon.net/community/arno/arno_gaudier.html

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by frankofile

So Frank, you're saying that a lot of dredging is going on to accomodate the TP52s coming into the Sound? Have you looked into whom the dredging contracts are going to? If what you say is true, there are probably a lot of East Coast connections and big boat industry fat cats scooping up some easy PNW public money along with the mud they're probably disposing of illegally to make the channels navigable for their buddies' outdated sailing monstrocities. Don't bother checking it out because you know I'm right. Question is, what are you going to do about it?

Yes I am aware that the Army Corps does the dredging. That plus the Port of Olympia. We have successfully put plans to dredge in east bay on hold for envronmental review. You will not see docks suitable for planting TP52s on east bay being paid for out of my Swantown moorage fees and taxes. Those vessels and the Tripp 47 can still use A dock in Swantown, where they make good breakwaters. They just will not be happening where the rest of the Toliva Shoal party will be happening. So what. Who needs um there? Argh! I must be dealing with Bush Babies. The crooked game involving influence peddling is played to get tax payer money to support racing vessels long past their prime which should not have been designed in the first place. Tax payer money like that that goes to US sailing for its Olympic teams.

Look. Here is the entire conspiracy. It goes back to 1823. Russell and Company ran fast ships for the opium trade. Many American and European fortunes were built on the China opium trade and fast sailboats were needed to get the product to where the shortages were and the price was the highest. The addicted pay well. But only if there is no other source. A second opium trade boat in harbour and the profits are not nearly as great.

William H. Russell, from this company, became an advocate against the scientific method owing to his cousin who studied the defeat of Prussia forces by Napoleon in 1806. Apparently those doing the actual fighting thought too much. Russell and others determined that education of young men would be taken over and new students would be told what to think and how to think it.

William H. Russell, returning to Yale in 1832, along with fourteen others, became a founding member of the Skull and Bones. Russell later became a state legislator in Connecticut. Being told how to think and how to think it has been a tradition in that part of the US, and on the big fixed fin race boats, ever since. The Bush family is of course from Connecticut.

Hampered by lack of an understanding of the scientific method, sail boat designers on the east coast still design based on what they have been told. This telling was likely wrong on purpose to protect those in the opium trade from competition by young upstarts who might think things through, debunk the myths, and come up with better sailing machines.

Frank L. Mighetto
Now tell me that wasn't fun!!!!

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by fatdog

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Frank, looks like you have been bested and one-upped.

There is now a new Future of Yacht Design (FOYD) website....

Introducing the Tackton 40....

http://danielsimon.net/community/arno/arno_gaudier.html

Let’s encourage the TP52s to stay close to where they were designed and built. That would be the east-is-least coast for real US sailors. Let’s also not forget that Farr International went bankrupt supporting the TP52s and that the remaining Farr TP52 effort is Mediterranean only, that being purely a freak show of the King of Spain’s. Let’s compare and contrast with the Volvo classes.

The Farr office in Annapolis (Farr International) held a near monopoly on the Volvo 60 class. Owing to Teeters, and like minded designers of ships for fools, Farr International decided to support a continuation of the failed experiments in fixed keel racers.

It put its efforts into halting progress in movable ballast, hence abandoning the Volvo 60s, and a promising future in Volvo 70s and movable ballast. It erroneously pushed LPS (limit of positive stability) to the point of Teeters testimony against the Mac26x and encouragement of the US delegates to the Grand Prix Rule Working Party to walk out when it was clear the world was going the other way - the way of safety.

Today Farr has corrected the Farr TP52 design so that the new generation boats pass the capsize risk ratio. It was our exposure of the failure of that SNAME standard here that may have caused that to happen. We are not air heads on the west coast. We are open minded.

Do you know that the Volvo 70s were specifically designed to enhance the reputation of Volvo for safety? It was this overall goal that lead to the rejection of the Teeter principles which pretend that a boat can be built which will never capsize and that boats that sink are safer than those that do not.

The FOYD can be seen in the Volvo 70s and in the MacGregors. Lets compare 52 to 70 eh? 52, 70, 26 hike. I still intend to show Sunday - but lunch is out. Pregame is 1230.

Frank L. Mighetto
North Carolina Born but Go Hawks.

[frankofile]

Rock on Frankie baby, no one spews the bs like you do. Nice effort in the two above... completely unintelligible.

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Look. Here is the entire conspiracy. It goes back to 1823. Russell and Company ran fast ships for the opium trade. Many American and European fortunes were built on the China opium trade and fast sailboats were needed to get the product to where the shortages were and the price was the highest. The addicted pay well. But only if there is no other source. A second opium trade boat in harbour and the profits are not nearly as great.

William H. Russell, from this company, became an advocate against the scientific method owing to his cousin who studied the defeat of Prussia forces by Napoleon in 1806. Apparently those doing the actual fighting thought too much. Russell and others determined that education of young men would be taken over and new students would be told what to think and how to think it.

William H. Russell, returning to Yale in 1832, along with fourteen others, became a founding member of the Skull and Bones. Russell later became a state legislator in Connecticut. Being told how to think and how to think it has been a tradition in that part of the US, and on the big fixed fin race boats, ever since. The Bush family is of course from Connecticut.

Hampered by lack of an understanding of the scientific method, sail boat designers on the east coast still design based on what they have been told. This telling was likely wrong on purpose to protect those in the opium trade from competition by young upstarts who might think things through, debunk the myths, and come up with better sailing machines.

Wauw - that is indeed fascinating stuff!
But I still have one small problem: I simply can't understand how the american opium trade some 180 years ago influenced the way I and other europeans were taught about yachts and yacht design in the 1980s. We never had any opium trade like that here in Denmark. Maybe they had something like it in the UK - could that explain their success in the latest olympic games? Could You please elaborate? The world can't wait to hear the truth according to Mighetto!

Originally Posted by mighetto

Let’s also not forget that Farr International went bankrupt...

Damn it - I have simply forgotten everything about that! Please refresh my memory! When exactly was it that Farr International went bankrupt?

[mighetto]

[sorenfdk]

Wauw - that is indeed fascinating stuff!
But I still have one small problem: I simply can't understand how the american opium trade some 180 years ago influenced the way I and other europeans were taught about yachts and yacht design in the 1980s. We never had any opium trade like that here in Denmark. Maybe they had something like it in the UK - could that explain their success in the latest olympic games? Could You please elaborate? The world can't wait to hear the truth according to Mighetto!

Love you right back:>) When the myths of sailboat design were being laid down by those protecting their interests in the Opium Trade, America was the place where the fast sailers were built. This likely was owing to natural resources which were expensive in Europe. The term Yanky Built indicated that the best wood products went into construction, wood that simply was not available towards the end of the age of commercial sailing, in Europe. If you reread my post you will see that it was Europians involved in spreading these myths about sailboat design. They are not American born.

American's were finding that centerboarders could out sail the fixed keel sailers and that these were better suited for the native harbour trading spots which were primarily shallow all weather ports. Can you contribute anything to the theory of why things are as they are today? The Skull and Bones has its roots in a German organization of like minded thinkers who could have also been interested in fast sailers for Opium trade in China, and keeping secrets about why they were fast from designers representing those interested in getting in on some of the smuggling action. To those with interest, lies were told about sailboat design, these lies then being passed on to clients and apprentices so that the designer would not appear so foolish. As long as the scientific method was not applied to test the lies, the myths continued. Blame Bethewaite for doing the tests.

I have never understood the phrase Think global, act local. It is all global when it comes to sailboats and trade. The unsuitability of the TP52s is a global unsuitability. There will not be public monies spent to dredge anywhere in the world because there is no commercial reason for that dredging. Designers always consider the resale value of the boats they are involved in designing because it is rare for a purchaser to keep his/her vessel for the owners life time. A gen 1 TP52 cost something like 1.6 million US. They sell for 350 thousand today. Thats after but 4 years. Thats a huge design failure. This is especially true when you realize that support for movable ballast had already been mandated by ISAF and designers had been given the go ahead to build vessels like MacGregor 26x and ms.


Damn it - I have simply forgotten everything about that! Please refresh my memory! When exactly was it that Farr International went bankrupt?

http://www.farrinternational.com/company/default.html

Frank L. Mighetto

[sorenfdk]

Originally Posted by mighetto

Love you right back:>) When the myths of sailboat design were being laid down by those protecting their interests in the Opium Trade, America was the place where the fast sailers were built. This likely was owing to natural resources which were expensive in Europe. The term Yanky Built indicated that the best wood products went into construction, wood that simply was not available towards the end of the age of commercial sailing, in Europe. If you reread my post you will see that it was Europians involved in spreading these myths about sailboat design. They are not American born.

American's were finding that centerboarders could out sail the fixed keel sailers and that these were better suited for the native harbour trading spots which were primarily shallow all weather ports. Can you contribute anything to the theory of why things are as they are today? The Skull and Bones has its roots in a German organization of like minded thinkers who could have also been interested in fast sailers for Opium trade in China, and keeping secrets about why they were fast from designers representing those interested in getting in on some of the smuggling action. To those with interest, lies were told about sailboat design, these lies then being passed on to clients and apprentices so that the designer would not appear so foolish. As long as the scientific method was not applied to test the lies, the myths continued. Blame Bethewaite for doing the tests.

Don't give me your usual ramblings - please come up with some facts!

Originally Posted by mighetto

Designers always consider the resale value of the boats they are involved in designing...

No - of course they don't.

Originally Posted by MIGHETTO

Damn it - I have simply forgotten everything about that! Please refresh my memory! When exactly was it that Farr International went bankrupt?

http://www.farrinternational.com/company/default.html

Frank L. Mighetto

OK - I'll ask You again: When exactly was it that Farr International went bankrupt?
The URL leads to a press release about Geoff Stagg taking over Farr International - there is no mentioning of bankruptcy.
Do You know what bankruptcy is?

[mighetto]

[quote=sorenfdk

Don't give me your usual ramblings - please come up with some facts!

Facts are legal concepts. When a court of law says its a fact it becomes one. For every other human decision making effort - especially boat design, what one is dealing with are assumptions and experiences. These get filtered by a belief system, by ones education and parenting, perhaps by genetics. I do not know. I do know that there will be endless argument about whoes facts represent truth and whoes facts are not consistant with the belief structure. One definition of truth is consistant with a belief structure. Sailors are philosphers. Berhaps designers need to sail more. Note smily. I am funning with you

[url]http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/M_Acc.htm[/url]

OK - I'll ask You again: When exactly was it that Farr International went bankrupt?

The URL leads to a press release about Geoff Stagg taking over Farr International - there is no mentioning of bankruptcy.
Do You know what bankruptcy is?

Its kind of like pornography isn't it? We know it when we see it. What happened to Farr International is obseen. It was owing to the TP52s that the company no longer exists. Purchasers of TP52s who now have the fact that the boats did not pass the capsize risk ratio and hence can not be sold by any reputable broaker for trans pacific work can no longer look to Farr International for the loss of value associated with that design error. That loss of value is something in the range of the difference between 1.6 million and 350,000. She how this sits in the guts of designers who do not take resale value into consideration. There are no such designers on the west coast of the US, to my knowledge.

Frank L. Mighetto