TP52s

[mighetto]

QUOTE=TP 52 Defender

31 TP52 active, 3 in build and 2 + on order. So Frank was once again WRONG 31 > 20 .... Apologies are due Frank ...

I will gladly apologize, and assume what you say is true. But I continue to verify those facts. MIght as well eh? What are the names of the TP52s you consider active? It is unusual for any vessel in a box rule such as the TP52s to be competitive after 2 years of operation. Generally speaking, the older generation boats become flower pots or artificial reefs - asssuming they are not suitable for cruising. It is the natural order of things. Sorry to introduce so much reality to you Defender but you have never clarified if you are paid to defend. I suspect you are. Fess up if so. There is no dishonor in feeding your family if you are honest about your income source.

Last chance to come and do the feeder race to KW .....

Other Class scutttle - The current owner of Yasso is looking for yet another TP 52.

What will the ower of Yasso do with the old TP 52? I suggest the flower pot idea Thanks for the invite. I think. Feeder race? Please elaborate


Now to address the *****:

"The climate of corruption that is prevalent in the US Federal Government is also prevalent in those who we can call the lubbers on the big boats like the TP52s. There is a reason good folks who love sailing do not join clubs that are overly influenced by these lubbers and instead join clubs like SSSS. SSSS is the only US sailing organization with a continued record of growth in membership that I am aware of. It is our reluctance to support the TP52 lubberly culture that sets us apart from other clubs. That culture is now being called a culture of corruption.

Open your news paper. See what east is least thinking has done to the US nation. Think what it has done to the sport of sailing.

TP52s represent a burden on the sport. They are also a burden on the marinas and on the sea ways. Are you aware that permission to race the big boats on a course suitable for them was denighed by Federal Officials controlling the Seattle area waterways. Everyone who has had to deal with these big boats is aware that they cause trouble, probably not because of the boat design itself but the arrogance of their operators and training of crew."

- No trouble when the programs are run professional (that would be all of them). As to the Seattle port issue that’s odd as the TP 52's annually race out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale - 2 of the busiest sea ports in the US. Seems the only arrogance her is yours Frank.

First. I take it that you address me as Canadians address the president of the United States when you call me a *****. I am at least as powerful - eh Second, lets just ponder why a class of boats called TransPacific can find actual racing only on the east-is-least for sailing coast of the US. I suggest it is because they were designed for the lubberly (also called golfers) who live there and not for the thinkers on the west coast - affectionately called Air Heads, who come up with multi-hulls and Mac26x vessels. BTW - excellent boat show in Seattle. Lots of new concepts. Runs through Friday. Lots of speakers. Third, when a big boat crew has to be chatted with about some prank or petty matter, the community has been burdened. I have yet to find an owner paying the police for his/her calls for intervention and yet calling the police appears to be a common procedure initiated by the big boat operators regualarly as a way of calling attention to their sailboats or race.

Lets be certain you understand what is going on with attempts to revive big boat racing in Seattle. The Seattle port is not involved here. It is the federals. The homies. The Home Land Security. They simply are not allowing courses to be selected that put a ferry boat or cruise boat or millitary vessel in potential harms way. Its moronic. I agree. But it also is a limiting factor on the ability of any community such as Seattle to support bouy courses suitable for big boat racing. If Treasure Island had not been shut down as a military base, I suspect there would be problems today with racing big boats in San Francisco Bay as well. Larger bodies of water and open ocean is less of an issue. Olympic style courses, less moronic back and forth windward leeward racing and less of an issue. These realities put the design of TP52s into question. You need courses suitable for these horses for the design to be viable. It isn't.

- Keep claiming something is true and guess what - some fools will believe you but it will still not make it true - this goes for sailing and politics.

You and I agree very much on that one.

Frank L. Mighetto

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by mighetto

First. I take it that you address me as Canadians address the president of the United States when you call me a *****. I am at least as powerful - eh

Cultural and national slurs are not appropriate for a civilized discussion forum such as this. Personally, I happen to agree with Carolyn Parrish on the George Bush issue; so far I'm reserving judgement on the Frank Mighetto issue. But half of your country also agrees with me. Such slurs don't help anyone's cause. Note to everyone- Please try to keep the discussion reasonably civilized.

[SailDesign]

Originally Posted by fatdog

Harborcourt

That would be "Harbour Court" to you, fatdog - and don't you forget it!

[fatdog]

[Shife]

Originally Posted by fatdog

Frankie was too busy looking at his radar display. Electronic gadgetry comes first for him, racing comes last.

[usa2]

JUST LIKE THE SUPERMAXIS!!

[Buc]

Fatdog --

Can you show the sequence as stills so we can figure out who's who?

Thanks

[the_sphincter]

It looks like that's Frank on port, and a tri on starboard, and the tri has to duck Frank? What's going on here frankie? don't know the rules of the road? you're incompetent?

[RHough]

Originally Posted by the_sphincter

It looks like that's Frank on port, and a tri on starboard, and the tri has to duck Frank? What's going on here frankie? don't know the rules of the road? you're incompetent?

The tri must give way to a vessel not under command.

[mholguin]

Originally Posted by RHough

The tri must give way to a vessel not under command.

I disagree. Can't you guys see the Mac is sailing sooo fast it just went around the world in 1/24th of a second? That hull is soo efficent that it generates no wake at all.

The sails that appear to be flappling, on ly look that way due to an optical illusion; they are soo efficent, that the generate lift without being trimmed at all.

You just don't get it, do you?

Another explanation is that this clip is a collage assembled by a joint force with members of the CIA, all East Coast sailing groups, TP-52 defenders, MI-5, SIM, KGB and Sailing World.

[fatdog]

Originally Posted by Buc

Fatdog --

Can you show the sequence as stills so we can figure out who's who?

Thanks

Buc, Not sure how to do that, the sequence is one originally posted on SA. But the vessel in question is the one with the radar post, aqua dodger up, reefed main (in what looks like about 7 knots), flogging and semi-furled jib, outboard down, on port and bombing through the start of a class that its not in.

[frankofile]

1500 posts! Woo hoo!

Another milestone in the annals of moronic web content.

[Buc]

Fatdog --

I know what it shows -- I was there. That's why I'd like to see the boats that had to give way to the idiot. One of 'em's mine.

Buc

[fatdog]

Originally Posted by Buc

Fatdog --

I know what it shows -- I was there. That's why I'd like to see the boats that had to give way to the idiot. One of 'em's mine.

Buc

Sorry to hear that.....From a previous post...all I got.

[mighetto]

Originally Posted by fatdog

Sorry to hear that.....From a previous post...all I got.

Great example of how the big race boats are a burden on our sport. The photo documents a poorly executed race that best I can tell was started early. 80 percent of the problems are caused by the big race boats which in this case charged their start. Commodore Decker wasn't able or willing to restart the race and those of us in other fleets were caught in the charge. The Tripp crew hunt Murrelets and were in full T bone mode from my perspective. It is this behavior that harms our sport. Because of this race I suspect that all races will be under VHF control in the near future. Currently SSSS implemented an extra shot 1 minute from the start that is meant to clear the course.

Lets work up this briefing for PHRF NW.

Background

- TP52s now in 4th Generation
- Race boats are rairly racable 2 years after a new generation is introduced
- Old generation race boats have limited race potential in PHRF or IRC
- Those with the least race potential move quickly into one design

Perceptions

- OD is one design (neutral)
- OD is Owner Driver (good)
- OD is On Drugs (bad) if you think it doesn't burden the community
- 20 percent of the racers generate 80 percent of the burden

Conclusions

- Areas supporting OD take on a high burden and risk alienating many in the communty because resources to support OD detract from the effort to grow the sport

- Anything that can postpone or prevent TP52 OD in the Pacific Northwest benefits the sport in that resources can be efficiently devoted in other areas.

*****

The Pacific Northwest was set up as a dumping ground for expired TP52s. The VPP program distributed by Jim Teeters et al and likely used by Sudie Parker in rating for phrf favors TP52s. It has been reject as non-scientific (read cheating) by the ORC and should be rejected by PHRF as well.

See you all at the next PHRF-NW meeting. Any help with the above briefing appreciated.

Frank L. Mighetto