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  #1  
Old 03-05-2009, 06:17 AM
Doug Lord
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Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?

New boat with entirely new foil system from Ovington boats UK: http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=145464
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  #2  
Old 03-05-2009, 06:48 AM
sigurd sigurd is offline
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are there any pics of the foils somewhere?
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  #3  
Old 03-05-2009, 07:00 AM
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PI Design PI Design is offline
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So this is yet another world class dinghy designer toying with the idea of a mainstream foiler. First Frank B (in thought only on the Tasar), now Phil Morrison - undoubtedly the most successful British designer in the last 20 years.
I've got to say that whilst I don't think any foiler will be as popular as the Laser or Hobie (but then, nothing else probably ever will be), it does look like foiling is beginning to break into the mainstream.
Maybe it is a revolution.
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  #4  
Old 03-05-2009, 01:12 PM
Doug Lord
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Peoples Foiler= Tomahawk?

PI, some day, somewhere I owe you a beer! It's pretty interesting particularly what they say about the foils. Going to have to find out more!
Ah, how far are you from Ovington-maybe you could visit as an "interested potential customer"?
-----------------------------
Bora Gulari(US Moth Champ) says he saw this boat and " it's not as fast as a Moth but still pretty cool." A Peoples Foiler has a number one priority of being easy to sail-performance is #2 but still important. Can't wait to learn more about this thing....
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Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?-20090305_tomahawk_1.jpg  
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  #5  
Old 03-05-2009, 01:57 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PI Design View Post
So this is yet another world class dinghy designer toying with the idea of a mainstream foiler. First Frank B (in thought only on the Tasar), now Phil Morrison - undoubtedly the most successful British designer in the last 20 years... it does look like foiling is beginning to break into the mainstream.
Maybe it is a revolution.

PI, I don't see that there's a relevance to anything like a trend just because Morrison starts to tinker with a foil set on a dinghy shell. You know, as well, that clever designers tinker with all sorts of possible combinations of things as a matter of course. Some work and some fail. He could just as easily drop the whole thing and move on to other pursuits. So, if that happens, would you consider that to also be a trend? "A major British designer abandons foiling pursuits"

The boys who built the foiling C-Class Cat... was that a trend when it hit the water? Was it a trend, as well, when it was abandoned having not gotten wet since? AFAIK

I'll give the foiling scene this much... Right now, it is cool and apparently very much the flavor of the month. The whole genre has a very long way to go, however, before it reaches mainstream acceptance as a heavily engaged technology.

Rotomolded boats are a heck of a lot more established as a mainstream technology with installed base numbers through the moon compared to foilers of any kind, all put together. That is where the People's Anything will originate, long before you see it in the foil world.

I do love your ever-so-dry teaser at the end of the post, though, even if you don't really buy it. ;-)
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  #6  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:01 PM
bistros bistros is offline
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I'm beginning to understand the revolution

I recently had an interesting conversation with my neighbor's 13 year old daughter while our dogs were playing together in the park. She was trying to convince me with Kool-aid Kult-like zeal that the Jonas Brothers were a revolutionary force in the music industry. Clean cut, musically spectacular, stunningly photogenic and with a tiny hint they knew how to have fun when the parental units weren't snooping. She knew all their names and minutia about their every like and dislike. She had clearly decided which one was, like, for her, and her best friend knew, like, why he was the right one without being told. There was some new detail about the Jonas Brothers that she received by text message while we were in the park. She reacted like it was breaking news on CNN. The Jonas Brothers were serious business to her.

I've heard the Jonas Brothers in the car when my 10 year old son chooses the local kiddie pop station (The New Hot 89.9!), and I thought of them as bland middle of the road over-produced commercial Disney production pop. Our perspectives were so far apart that it seemed we could not be hearing and seeing the same band.

Foiling, it seems, is like the Jonas Brothers. Some people are stricken like prepubescent teenage girls, fanatically absorbing every detail as if life itself depended on the quality of devotion. Others, like me are standing there going, "Huh, what's the big fuss?".

I really think this young lady is a great kid, and I know she will grow out of her Jonas Brothers period and someday, regret the level of obsession in an embarrassing way - like my older sister's Neil Diamond "thing" in the 70s.

So sure, it IS a revolution. I get it.

--
Bill
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  #7  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:36 PM
wet feet wet feet is offline
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I was hoping there might be something more interesting than just the manufacturers one designs at Alexandra Palace.It will be interesting to try to get a grip on the principles of the foil as the makers website indicates that it has no moving parts.They are also looking to develop foils for motor boats.
It may be early days for foiling but just consider how many years elapsed between Nathanael Herreshoff causing a stir with his catamaran and Hobie Alter designing his most popular boat.
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  #8  
Old 03-05-2009, 03:53 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Consider, if you will, the time between the first Kattu Marram as conceived by the Tamil people some 3000 years ago and the cat done by Capt. Nat

I think that the whole business of addressing "time to design" is a bit of a Red Herring. If that is really a relevant expression, then how do we look at going from the first launched satellite to landing on the moon in ten years time?

How about a whole new design architecture for CPU chips in each generation of computers in much less than 18 months?

How do we explain the development of a simple loaf of bread.... a product that hasn't changed one iota since its inception way back at the dawn of man? All that time, you'd think there'd be a foiling loaf of Pumpernickel by now...
;-)

I just don't think there's any substantive connection to how much time passes while a product comes to maturity. It happens when it happens due to a giant list of variables that are virtually impossible to predict.

Don't get me wrong, Wet, I do understand your implied point, but the future is out there somewhere... as exciting and unpredictable as it is and the present is about all we really know with anything close to certainty.
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  #9  
Old 03-05-2009, 04:59 PM
Doug Lord
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If You Sail You Can Foil!

Must be a Peoples Foiler with a slogan as good as that....
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More info: http://www.tomahawkfoils.com/
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From the Tomahawk foils website-they have used the foil on a windurfer-see the site:
"The foil’s inventor, Jonathan Howes explains the concept: “It’s a totally new type of hydrofoil that solves many of the problems inherent in conventional foil designs. The ventilated design has features that give a wide operating speed range without moving parts and exceptional tolerance to rough water, making the windsurfer simpler, more versatile and easier to sail” "

The concept uses subtle upper-surface shaping to provide progressive changes in lift force with increasing speed in a similar way to an aircraft’s wing flaps but without any moving parts. This means that the windsurfer lifts on to the foils at a very low speed but automatically corrects for higher speeds, giving smooth performance throughout the speed range.

Ventilated surface running allows the foil to move in and out of waves with minimal impact on foiling performance and gives speed potential without sudden changes in handling due to uncontrolled ventilation or cavitation. Not only does it fully exploit the concept’s forgiving characteristics, but a windsurfer fitted with the hydrofoil still behaves like a normal windsurfer.

The design has been tested, developed and refined by well-known, Weymouth sailor and dinghy manufacturer, Linton Jenkins. He says: “The Tomahawk foil makes windsurfing enjoyable, fast, and refreshing. I’ve never had such fun windsurfing!” "
-------------------
News Flash: Simon Maguire,designer and developer of the M4( first Peoples Foiler candidate) has joined Ovington to work on "special projects"-I think thats him sailing the Tomahawk.



Here he is on his own M4:
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Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?-boat2.jpg  
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:03 AM
Doug Lord
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More Tomahawk pix,posted by permission of Linton Jenkins, www.tomahawkfoils.com:
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Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?-tomahawkboat076-full-init_.jpg  Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?-tomahawkboat165-full-init_.jpg  
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Jon Howes Jon Howes is offline
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Good to hear that you are all enjoying my latest headache. The foil section was developed for Monofoil, use on a dinghy and then on a board resulted in the no-moving-parts flap trick.

Regards,

Jon.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:04 PM
sigurd sigurd is offline
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Tell more please! Is there coming air to the top surface to decrease lift? Air going through the strut?
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Doug Lord
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Howes View Post
Good to hear that you are all enjoying my latest headache. The foil section was developed for Monofoil, use on a dinghy and then on a board resulted in the no-moving-parts flap trick.

Regards,

Jon.
==========================
Thanks ,Jon and congratulations! Sure would like more detail when you can.
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Some info on a ventilated foil by Jon Howes here,post 105: Oh Lordy (Doug)
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detailed info on Jon's Monofoil idea:
Attached Files
File Type: doc Monofoil pt 1.doc (1.31 MB, 456 views)
File Type: doc Monofoil pt 2.doc (1.69 MB, 400 views)
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2009, 03:47 AM
Jon Howes Jon Howes is offline
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A few vidclips of monofoil tests (and a couple of crashes) here, if you are interested:

http://www.youtube.com/user/HowesAero

Jon
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2009, 12:17 PM
sigurd sigurd is offline
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superb. I love it when they crash.
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