Tomahawk: Peoples Foiler?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

I was wondering how much it will cost. That's the second question for a people's foiler I would guess -the first being "can I fly it?"

You should be able to fly it-in fact anyone that can sail a dinghy should be able to fly it. By eliminating the wand the thing has become very simple. Its too bad about the deal between Ovington and Full Force going south for the moment.....
I don't think even if Ovington had stayed with it a "Peoples Foiler" would result but if Hobie got involved with John and the rights to the foil-then it would be a different story. Are you listening, Greg?

PS- Terry this foil makes a two foil foiler simpler than a three foil surface piercer--think about it.
__________________

[bistros]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

I was wondering how much it will cost. That's the second question for a people's foiler I would guess -the first being "can I fly it?"

There is a world of difference between companies that build products to sell for profit and people who build things because they love the idea. Ovington obviously did basic market analysis and determined there to be insufficient justification/compensation in proceeding. This is an important finding - one of the most reputable and solid small boat producers in the world have determined that there aren't enough units to be sold at a reasonable price point to proceed.

Rather than this being a temporary setback, I'm sorry to say it is a major and possibly permanent setback, as other companies look to Ovingtons as a leader in building performance dinghies. This won't bode well for other companies looking for financing foiling projects as the due diligence process will uncover Ovington's decision.

It is too bad, as I see a lot of promise in Mr. Howes foil design as he has described it here. I would have loved there to be enough profit in the concept that he could continue his work in both this and his other ventures.

--
Bill

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by bistros

There is a world of difference between companies that build products to sell for profit and people who build things because they love the idea. Ovington obviously did basic market analysis and determined there to be insufficient justification/compensation in proceeding. This is an important finding - one of the most reputable and solid small boat producers in the world have determined that there aren't enough units to be sold at a reasonable price point to proceed.
Rather than this being a temporary setback, I'm sorry to say it is a major and possibly permanent setback, as other companies look to Ovingtons as a leader in building performance dinghies. This won't bode well for other companies looking for financing foiling projects as the due diligence process will uncover Ovington's decision.

It is too bad, as I see a lot of promise in Mr. Howes foil design as he has described it here. I would have loved there to be enough profit in the concept that he could continue his work in both this and his other ventures.

--
Bill

============================
I can tell you that based on the e-mail I got from Dave Hall at Ovington that

this is just not true- they were behind the project 100%.

PS- I've asked permission to post the e-mail here.

[Jon Howes]

I have not spoken to Ovingtons, however, the economic situation here in the UK at present is not glowing (to put it politely, thanks Gordon...) and new developments for many companies are extremely risky given depressed markets in just about everything.

On a brighter note we have just got a new windsurf foil out testing and it is a vast improvement on MK 1 (which was a lash-up based on the dinghy mould in any case). More details will leak out in the near future.

Jon.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

============================
I can tell you that based on the e-mail I got from Dave Hall at Ovington that

this is just not true- they were behind the project 100%.

PS- I've asked permission to post the e-mail here.

Doug:

From much sad personal experience I can tell you that it is entirely possible to be "100% behind a project" and still decide to not proceed due to conditions outside your control. Welcome to the real world. Personal enthusiasm, unshakable belief in a concept and ability to succeed are trumped by local and global economic conditions, available risk capital and a company's risk tolerance threshold.

As Mr. Howes' clear post points out, economic conditions in the UK aren't great, and more telling is that he has not had any direct communications with Ovingtons. Time will tell how this ends up, but like always I find it problematic that you can directly call me a liar without enough facts to support your faith.

You are much like a radical Muslim freedom fighter (or the previous US President), willing to hastily condemn things your don't fully understand that disagree with your world view. Perhaps you could learn from your recent ugly ejection from Sailing Anarchy and temper your positions somewhat.

I'm the first one to admit I make mistakes and also the first to apologize for them. You would do well to embrace the same attitude.

--
Bill

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Jon Howes

I have not spoken to Ovingtons, however, the economic situation here in the UK at present is not glowing (to put it politely, thanks Gordon...) and new developments for many companies are extremely risky given depressed markets in just about everything.

On a brighter note we have just got a new windsurf foil out testing and it is a vast improvement on MK 1 (which was a lash-up based on the dinghy mould in any case). More details will leak out in the near future.

Jon.

==================
Thanks, Jon! Any chance you could post any pictures? Thanks for posting here-it's great to hear from you.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by bistros

There is a world of difference between companies that build products to sell for profit and people who build things because they love the idea. Ovington obviously did basic market analysis and determined there to be insufficient justification/compensation in proceeding. This is an important finding - one of the most reputable and solid small boat producers in the world have determined that there aren't enough units to be sold at a reasonable price point to proceed.

--
Bill

-------------------------
As I said before this is incorrect-not that you were lying-just that you jumped to conclusions not supported by the evidence you had.

Originally Posted by bistros

Doug:

From much sad personal experience I can tell you that it is entirely possible to be "100% behind a project" and still decide to not proceed due to conditions outside your control. --
Bill

This is much more accurate .......I'll post the e-mail from Ovington if I get permission.