Teak Decks

[aitchem]

Hi guys,
The time has come, yes new teak decks.

Does anyone have experience/pics of what is under the teak decks on a Swan 411. I am told there is a layer of foam under there.

This will be a DIY project, but I have done this previously should anybody say its a pro-only job. My opinion is that an amateur has the advantage of time on his hands, where a pro has to finish the job and get on to the next job, to make money.
I have 6 months to do this.
Where do I get some burmese teak.?

HM

[Vega]

There are companies that sell pre-cut teak, ready to fit in your boat.

I know that they exist also in Europe, but I can find only US links

http://www.teakdeckcompany.com/

http://www.oceanyachtservice.com/teak_decks.htm

[PAR]

There are a few different ways to do laid decking. Swan has taken a page out of the home construction industry and adapted "floating flooring" to their decks. The idea here, is to separate the covering material from the movement of the substrate. The covering material floats on a bed of absorbent material to isolate expansion, contraction, loading stresses, etc. from the overlay. Swan uses foam, but cork has been tried as has a few other materials. This is a decorative covering and not a structural element of the deck.

Another decorative approach is a veneer decking. This is a thin layer of decking material, set in bedding, usually over a 'glassed substrate, be that plywood, balsa cored laminate or solid laminate. This has the advantage of using thinner and less costly sections of teak, but generally offers little in over all deck strength. Since your boat has a deck that is strong enough, one of the decorative deck coverings are options.

After the decorative decking come the real laid decks, which usually supply a substantial amount of strength (if not all of it, as in traditional decks) to the deck structure. The deck is a very important element in a boat. It forms the top part of a girder, which is essentially what a boat structure is. Laid decks (likely what you'll not use) can be put down with tongue and groove or simple edge set, over beams or a sub deck substrate, like plywood.

Decking a boat with as complicated a layout as your nice Swan, isn't a job I would recommend the average back yard, do it yourselfer to tackle. Most marinas will frown on the mess, dust, goo and noise, if doing it at it's berth, though I'm sure they'd be happy to offer their service dock (for a fee of course), while you get the task completed.

Contact one of the pre cut decking outfits. Your boat is their target market, so they'd probably have one ready to ship. Most of the ones I've seen don't have the neat features of a well done craftsman built deck, but it does cover the acres of plastic anti skid nicely. Most folks wouldn't notice the differences, but I suspect you might. To answer these and more of your questions, try their web sites and see what they have available and look over the details in the photos carefully. Check out how they deal with chain plates and deck fittings, around hatches and other deck openings, you'll see what I mean about the details, pretty quickly.

[aitchem]

Guys,
Thanks for the input, I will investigate this precut idea.
£30,000 seems a bit steep for deck replacement,

I can do this undercover in my old barn no problem.

I can't find a section through the Swan Deck showing how planks are fixed and how thick this foam is. The S&S association has some good pictures of the process though.

later
HM

[mattotoole]

Check out this article at Epoxyworks: http://www.epoxyworks.com/indexprojects.html

A pair of yachtsmen installed a teak deck on a 50' sailboat with epoxy, using epoxy to fill the seams as well. Both the process and the result seem very elegant -- no screw holes, bungs, or seams to be maintained, and hopefully everything sealed well enough with epoxy to eliminate the possibility of leaks.

[Gypsie]

New teak decking is a substantial investment and so it is in your interest to do it right. The teakwood has to be at least sawing grade 2 Burmese, it has to be quarter sawn and the moisture has to be around 12%. In my experience it is better to air dry the teak wood not kiln dry. It is easy to get into an argument as to what adhesives to use to put the deck down and teh caulking but take it from someone who knows, Sika products are the only adhesive to use but they have to be applied properly. There is also a design aspect that is often overlooked, for aesthetic purposes and also for saving on costs of the wood (for instance, design narrow margins for curved sections as they have to be cut from wider quarter sawn planks that are expensive) If you are happy with planking that is 10ft or less then you can also save on the teak wood price as length means cost. Do the job right and it enhances the appearance of your vessel and adds to its resale value. If you where somewhere near Singapore or Malaysia my company could offer you a price of around US$22,000 to replace this deck for you.

[PAR]

I sure don't recommend epoxy for teak, but I've seen it done. It doesn't make sense to lock down a raw, solid lumber on one side, with a hard adhesive, while permitting the top to do as mother nature allows. Bedding is the answer, with fastening of choice. Gypsie is right, you want the good stuff, or you'll regret it, particularly come time to sell the old girl. On a veneer decking you can hide fasteners in the seams, so there's no bungs. Deck design can be challenging, you will want the assistance of a pro to get it laid out properly on all but work or commercial vessels.

[aitchem]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the input.
I don't want to use epoxy on the decks because I forsee lots of deck damage on the next renewal.I have been told that Silkaflex is best for the job.

I have seen pictures of the foam base replaced by a ply base, the teak screwed to this, what do you think.?

I agree with the quarter sawn air dried timber, I reckon it should also be left to rest a long while after being sawn.
I have already set out on CAD a good layout not needing long lengths.


As for resale, it won't happen, I adore my S&S curvy hull designed by pencil rather than a puter.

tnks
HM

[jbassion]

Hy Par welcome back from "retirement" missed your wise words.

Just to add a wrinkle to this thread. Even though I'm a teak man. I have been considering this product for the deck of my Benny. Check out the site and let me know your opinions. http://www.flexiteek.no/

[PAR]

Hay big guy, did you ever get rid of your Chrysler? I just picked up a Sea Ward 24 to fix up.

I've seen a few of those fake teck deck materials and they look okay in some types of light and in others, when the sun hits it just so, it looks like your grandmother's kitchen floor covering. I'm also not convinced about the under foot traction when wet or covered in fish guts, etc. How much would it cost to do your Bennie? Is it available in kit form?

[Crag Cay]

I've specced the teak substitute from www.tekdek.net It does have excellent traction in all conditions and looks okay. They do pre cut kits, or you can work with uncut lengths yourself.

But I prefer the Marine Deck 2000 because it doesn't pretend to look exactly like teak, but still makes for a really good looking deck. I've seen it on loads of yachts and ships and have been impressed with its wear and tear. It is fully repairable should you drop the outboard motor and have the skeg dig in, for example.

www.moody.co.uk/service/marinedeck.htm

A trip along the Thai / Cambodia border will quickly prove to you that all is not well in the 'teak household'. I think the 'marine deck', from renewable cork forests (and hence helping them economically in fighting off the spread of golf courses and condo's along the Med coast), is a very good product that will admirably compliment even a clasic S&S.

And I say this as a (former) classic S&S owner, who still sometimes looks whistfully at the for-sale advert of our own boat that is back on the market again, and idly wonders if you can ever go back....... Would she have us back...... Would she hold a grudge that we sold her to that idiot with more money than sence...... Have the years of idleness sat in the broker's yard broken her love of the open sea and distant shores........Does the keel still wobble a little or has it become a lot......

[Vega]

Originally Posted by PAR

I've seen a few of those fake teck deck materials and they look okay in some types of light and in others, when the sun hits it just so, it looks like your grandmother's kitchen floor covering.

jbassion, have a look at Marindeck 2000. It is not a teck imitation. You can see clearly that it is not teck, but a composite product made mostly of cork. It would not look like teck, but it is not going to look like "grandmother's kitchen" either.

http://www.stazo.nl/html/news_press_releases.html

http://www.stazo.nl/html/pictures.html

[D'ARTOIS]

There are a few companies in Europe (UK, Holland and Germany) that produce the teak timber as you require.
A pro-job will cost you around 1100 Euro per square meter - that is what we pay here in Holland. So, the do-it-yourself option might be one to consider. That means, if you have the skill and the patience to do it. If Swan have used a foam
layer under the present deck, you might land up in a very messy job to remove the old deck and to restore the basic underground for a new deck.
In any case, I would never reinstall such underground again, although, if you study it closely, there are advantages, but only if you execute such a job in factory conditions.
You need minimal teak strips with a thickness of 8 or 10 mm. 8 mm is the most commonly used. The with of the strips are 45 or 50 mm. The lengths of the strips are variable - mostly from 2.00 till 3.00 mtrs.

A well known supplier in Germany is:

Daniel Georgus
Simon Bolivarstrasse 29
28197 Bremen - Germany
e-mail: info@georgus.de
www.georgus.de
tel.+49-421-545411
fax +49-421-547994

They can supply you with any profile you require and what I have seen they have best quality teak.
I am sure you might find a similar provider in the UK.

I would use SIKAFLEX as a matrix material - it is the best compound there is and I would suggest to go to their site and check what their latest technology is.

You can do it but it takes time and skill.

[Vega]

Crag Cay, I did not see your post before I posted mine. They were almost posted at the same time and I was probably looking for the right links.

Nice to know that you have experience with that product. It is not my case. I have just seen some boats with it on the deck and they looked alright to me (Etap 46 Ds). The product file is also impressive.

I have tried to nail scratch the thing and I have seen that it is more scratch resistant than the teak I have in my boat.

How about impact resistance and temperature over the deck, when the summer sun hits the deck?

If the cork properties are well explored, it should be alright, getting as a bonus the typical cork noise isolation. But it is a composite product and that means that you will never now.

Have you got any information about those points?

[harhhnt]

If anyone would like information about cork decking, contact: www. Marine-Solutions.com or harhhnt@aol.com. Harry Hunt 516 637 7967