talk about a futuristic design...

[PaulM]

Guest (3) Soft sails haven't been competitive in C class since the 70's
http://www.team-invictus.co.uk/lac-history.htm
and more recently
"the double slotted flapped rig on the Australian boats could produce as much lift as a conventional soft sail nearly 3 times its area"
Ebaydesign (7) you may be interested to know Walker wingsails originally planned to sell add on wingsails as a fuel saver for marine traffic. Low oil prices at the time killed the viability of that project. Today things may be a little different.Good luck I understand commericial shipping is very 'dirty' since virtually unregulated
Andy P (14) Love the Wing drive. So simple. If Ellen had one of these see might have got a lot more sleep rather than changing the sail plan every few hours. It also set me wondering if a spinnaker would speed a C cat around the course (rules permitting), or perhaps the apparent wind makes it inefficent ?
Paul

Paul, check the "Extreme Sailing" topic for a pix of an I14 on foils flying a spinnaker....

[CT 249]

"Soft sails haven't been competitive in C class since the 70's".

Yes, but the word from the last Little America's Cup was that the Poms, at least, would have been faster with a soft rig - wasn't it??. The margins between the US and Australian boats seem to suggest the Aussies may also have been faster with a soft rig, in fact although it's hard to know (accurate yardsticks being scarce) one wonders whether an old-style Tornado may not have beaten the Poms and Aussies??????

So doesn't it take the most sophisticated, lightest and best-developed wing rigs to beat a good (and much more practical) soft rig??

"It also set me wondering if a spinnaker would speed a C cat around the course (rules permitting), or perhaps the apparent wind makes it inefficent ?"


Dunno, but the A Class cats are also very efficient (wing rigs have been tried there too) and the world's top A Class sailors get beaten downwind by a Mosquito (sort of like a 16' Tornado with a small low-aspect rig) with a spinnaker of aboout 17.5m2. When the wing mast C Class Victoria 150 (which I think is certainly quicker than Patient Lady) raced the 18' skiffs many years ago, the top 18 was allegedly faster down the square run (but much slower upwind). Of course, the Tornado has speeded up a loooong way since it grew a kite. So maybe the evidence is that a spinnaker would make the C quicker.

The wing would be scary offshore...I still remember reading about the last radio messages from Loic Caradoc (and others, I think) saying that they were under bare poles but still in danger from power and windage of the bare wing mast.....

[tspeer]

Originally Posted by Andy P

And another wing sail craft - though it's more like a m26 style version
Wing-Drive http://www.dahlberg-sa.com/kd/

He's posted some on the iceboat and landyacht forum. Be advised that at least the landyacht photo is doctored. The chassis in the picture is Nord Embroden's "Silver Bullet" - a World Championship winning yacht. It has never had a rigid wing on it, let alone the Wing-Drive. Dahlberg admitted it was a cut-and-paste job. I'm more inclined to believe the picture of the Aqua Cat with a Wing-Drive is real, and perhaps the two are suited to each other.

[CT 249]

"I'm more inclined to believe the picture of the Aqua Cat with a Wing-Drive is real, and perhaps the two are suited to each other."

Ooooooooooo, ouch!

But funny "ouch". :-)

[PaulM]

Team Invictus had never sailed their boat before arriving at the regatta so it's difficult to read too much into their performance. Hopefully they will be able to build on the experience. But it's true that a modern soft rig has not been tried in C class. I wouldn't give it much chance when you consider the 'rule of thumb' that 1/3 of wing lift comes from the windward side. But unless it was tried it's just speculation of course. Would be great to repeat the skiff comparision with current craft, but I guess the evidence does suggest that until you get to ice yachts speed an Asymmetric would still pay. Team Phillips (another glorious English 'not entirley succesful' project) also reported problems with wing mast power. I can't understand that if the wing is symmetrical and 'weather vaning'. The windage should be less than a round poll. But it does seem to be a fact.