Square Rig pointing - questions

[percyff]

I have nothing further.

The Pelican website http://www.adventureundersail.com shows the maiden voyage postponed from October 2006, and suggests sailing trials in November 2006, but until the results of those are known we will not have any useful full-scale data.

[brian eiland]

I know some discussions on this subject came up over on another subject thread, and included this site reference. Just thought it should be added here.

http://www.weatherlysquareriggers.com/

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I know some discussions on this subject came up over on another subject thread, and included this site reference. Just thought it should be added here.

http://www.weatherlysquareriggers.com/

Appears as though this link to 'weatherlysquareriggers' is no longer available.

I'm wondereing if this paper is still available online?

Brigs And Polacres with Windward Ability
(Improving the Sailing Qualities of Square Rigged Ships)

[brian eiland]

I just found it
http://www.yachtingdirect.com/white_...re_riggers.htm

[ancient kayaker]

Just discovered this thread. Wish I had seen it earlier. Here are my thoughts on the weatherliness of square rigged boats and ships, some of which have already been aired by others:

Limitations imposed by standing rigging has been discussed: obviously if the yards cannot be rotated enough to bring the sails to bear on the wind then that’s that. In ancient times there were also limitations imposed by material especially sailcloth which probably did not permit much improvement and of course most sailors held strong convictions about the efficacy of full cut sails. It should not be forgotten that old-time square riggers also had fore-and-aft sails; although the clippers and windjammers carried significantly less fore-and-aft sails than ships of Nelson’s day, I suspect that was largely due to the markets they served and the trade winds.

There were also limitations imposed by hull design: old-time square riggers were all of a piece, sail improvements and hull improvements tend to go together. The full-length keel was a consequence of building methods and the fin keel was far in the future, requiring new hydrodynamic theories before it could even be contemplated.

Each of the above points represents a potential area for improvement in square rigged performance. The Maltese Falcon demonstrates most of these, with no standing rigging except on the radar mast, sails of advanced materials, and no fore-and-aft sails at all. The Maltese Falcon does not show updates in all areas however, in particular the hull design. Of course one can question the practicality of a fin keel on a vessel of this size; imagine the draft or the effect of a retractable foil on the accommodations. And yet, in these days of high fuel costs and concern over impact on planetary ecology, who knows -this vessel might show the way for future commercial shipping.

It seems to me that the sail design of the Maltese Falcon approaches a wing sail, also see Square rig variation - I would like to try it on a small sailboat; I suspect pointing could be improved. The big problem that I can see is the backwinding of the sails during tacking. Was this problem ever solved for square riggers, other than by wearing ship? This is more of a problem for a small, lightweight boat, lacking the momentum to shoulder through the turn.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I just found it
http://www.yachtingdirect.com/white_...re_riggers.htm

Actually this is not the identical paper that I have in a printed form, but it is by the same author. I'll have to explore the differences in content to see what additional info my version has, and if its significant to the discussion.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

Just discovered this thread. Wish I had seen it earlier.

This discussion had fallen into the 'older' category and I had to initiate its return to current capabilities.

The big problem that I can see is the backwinding of the sails during tacking. Was this problem ever solved for square riggers, other than by wearing ship? This is more of a problem for a small, lightweight boat, lacking the momentum to shoulder through the turn.

You are correct, these issues require resolution in particular aboard a multihull lacking the inertia of a ballasted keel to carry it thru the tack.

[ancient kayaker]

That's the first time I ever posted a link without checking it! Figures. Try again- Square rig variation