smallest sailboat which has an inboard engine

thanks JotM,
i got it. actually my question involves another question inside it: what should be the minimun size inboard engine for a coastal cruiser capable of struggling in heavy seas, and then i should ask what is the minimun size of the boat taht can carry this size of engine.
yes, even i will navigate with sails mainly, an adequate size of engine that you can trust is necessary

 

My boat, a heavy gaff sloop of 15 ft, would be a prime candidate for an inboard of modest size (5 hp max). I personally don't care to go to the expense and add the extra weight, but I've toyed with the idea of the same hull and rig and a small overnight cabin. Then I suppose there'd be nothing preventing the installation of an inboard.
The question is really what is the smallest cruiser that one would take offshore (if only for small journeys), period. The engine, to be inboard, has to be small enough not to tax the displacement, and the keel/underbody/rudder must accomodate it.
In any small (under 18 ft, say) yacht, an inboard is definitely in the way of potential stores and accomodations. Particularly in light of the fact that small yachts can be rowed. And then, there are so many modern 4 stroke outboards of 2 -3 hp that are reliable and cheap and removable/carryable.

 

I agree with Alan!
Myself I am pretty impressed by the Cardigan Bay lugger Swallow Boats has cooked up in this range kind of boats.

• LOA 18'7" (5.7 m)
• beam 6'2" (1.9 m)
• displ. 550 lb (250 kg)
• 4 HP OB in a well
• berths for two

[the making of and first use]


Personally I am leaning more towards the sailing canoe or "raid capable" row&sail kind of craft at the moment. But a Swallow Boats "Storm Petrel" or CLC "Skerry" sounds a bit small for the usecase urisvan describes.

But, urisvan, I think you are facing a typical design problem here. It is not like one thing clearly defines the other. The size and displacement of the boat determines the power needed to propel it forward into rough seas. Which leads to a certain dimensions and mass of an engine. Which in turn make up a good part of the displacement of your boat. (the solution is part of your problem you might say) In the end it has to be in balance.
When I started designing ship cranes an old engineer said to me "construieren ist radieren" which is German and translates into "designing is erasing". I guess this is also such a case in which you just have to start trying and tweak as you go.

Regards.

 

I don't think it's practical to get much under 20' LOD for an inboard. Even though I have a 18' design that does, it's nearly three times the weight necessary for the output and takes up very valuable stowage room, with is at a premium on a small cruiser. When you can have a 2 to 5 HP outboard that weighs less then the battery to run nav lights, it's a fair big consideration.

A boat's ability to take to open water, with the safety I think you desire, is a pretty rare breed of pocket yacht. Flicka is an exception and one well designed to boot, but there aren't many like her.

Frankly, moving up a couple of feet (say 22') will still keep the boat small, easily managed and affordable, but at the same time, you'll gain huge amounts of volume and an inboard is a move viable option.

 

Though not an experienced sailor I too was impressed by the CB lugger. Only 250 kg weight fully rigged? Am I missing something?

 

Something like the "massive" weight of an inboard engine?

 

. . . and the ability to take on occasional blue water, often found in coastal cruising, which is likely the hardest kind of sailing to do (both boat and crew) . . .

 

PAR,
Can you tell why this boat is lacking that ability to your opinion?

 

PAR,
Can you tell why this boat is lacking that ability to your opinion?

 

par,
do you mean that; with the boat of these sizes, for example 20 or 22 feet, it can be hard to make blue water sailing even as a part of your coastal cruising?

 

Well, it looks like it's off the coast so I guess it's in salt water, but there's land close by in every shot except one, and that has a rowboat in it. I've encountered bigger waves in my canoe! But it's still a sweet looking boat.

 

EU RCD Category C is pretty much what every sailboat with a covered foredeck, reasonable coming and closed cockpit seating will be. Coastal sailing is about the hardest thing a boat can do. You'll see steep swells, confused seas, plenty of junk in the water that can hole your boat, lots of commercial traffic (which usually can't see you) and winds well in excess of the EU RCD cat C requirement., which is only 25 knots or so.

The CB lugger is a fine little puddle jumper, but I wouldn't ask much more of it then that. It could be overwhelmed by a decent thunderstorm, let alone a nasty contrary current in a confused 6' sea with a half a gale building. It's a wonderfully shaped boat, but I'd keep her quite close to shore.

Look once you get farther from shore then you can safety swim back to, you're in an unnatural environment. Meaning if something goes badly wrong, you chances of dieing increase exponentially. This is when you want a little ship under your butt, not a puddle jumper. You'll want a reasonable D/L ratio so you can tolerate the storm without heaving your lunch or having everything that once was on a shelf, now on the cabin sole. You also want the ability to carry on, off the face of a lee shore in substantial wind strengths without having your sticks blown off the boat. In short, you'll want more then a 500 pound boat under you for coastal cruising.

I've attached one of my designs. It's a real little ship, capable of offshore cruising and real voyaging. The short Bermudian rig and gaffer are shown. A taller Bermudian rig and a round bilge hull form are also available. A quick look at it's numbers and you can see she's not going to get her butt kicked nor be easily over whelmed. Of course she's not going to get up an plane off either. She has the internal volume to carry the stores and supplies for cruising, without having to sacrifice bunk space to stow gear. She's self righting too.

This is a little cruiser, abet with an old school charm. She could be done with a modern look too, but you'll still want similar features. A small boat can pound you to death in short order if the conditions are right. Why, when you can select a design that will look after you, rather then the other way around.

 

I think you designed a beautiful little craft there, PAR.

That being said, please don't be blinded by EU RCD categorisation. For instance, I see no guard-rail in your design, which immediately implies it would probably only qualify for cat C or D under the RCD (according to EN-ISO 15085). There are lots of different reasons to certify a design under a specific categorisation. I expect one of the most important ones is article 8 of the RCD, which implies that certification of a boat in category C can be done without physical testing as long as harmonized standards are adhered to, whereas category B always requires tests.

Now I am wondering. As we are talking/writing about coastal cruising, not ocean cruising, shouldn't we take into account the area in which the boat is intended to be used? The OP, urisvan, is based in Istanbul, so I guess the boat he is thinking about should be suitable for his regional waters. Myself I am based in Leiden, which is on the sandy North Sea shores of the Netherlands. Having "worked my way up the boating ladder of experience" from paddling an inflatable on a local canal to cruising the German Bight in a 26' sailboat, with less than 30 years you might still call me a novice. And in more than one aspect I think I still am myself. But if I had to choose between the Cardigan Bay and your design, I would go for the CB. I reckon my chances of survival in the short chop of the North Sea or "Waddenzee", when surprised by a storm, are bigger with the flat bottomed beach boat type. Then again, that's the kind of boats I grew up with.
But history gives me some reassurance as well. The hulls of the Swallow Boats Storm range seem to decent from Norwegian double ender open boats. And those have cruised the treacherous waters of the North Sea and the northern Atlantic for quite a while now.

Cheers

Edit: removed pictures of more agile boats for coastal cruising, as they were clearly not cruisers in the way the other posters seem to mean.

 

hello,
i will try to sum it up:
first the choice of our little boat suitable for coastal cruising is important. i share the same opinion with PAR. Coastal cruising in aegean means waves up to 5 metres and winds up to 60 knots. Oh yes i can handle this with my windsurf equipment but it is a different story. i think the weight is important as the PAR said. The examples that are given shows similarity, FLICA, FOLKBOAT and PAR design. they are all long keel boats. I quess it is(being long keel) necessary to obtain the weight required, the space for the accomondation and inboard motor. but i have only one doubt about them: i did not sail one of them but i heard that these type of boats have bad pointing ability. So can they easily escape from a lee shore in strong winds??

second the length of the our smallest boat (that is suitable for offshore) that can carry an adequate inboard engine. as JotM said that it is a design problem, but a starting point in design is important. and PAR said that it should be at least 20 feet and 22 should be better. it is very logical.

cheers

 

Sorry for being inconsiderate before. I should probably have realised earlier the Aegean Sea and its shores are deeper and steeper than the shores I am used to deal with.

I wouldn't worry about the reaching capabilities of the designs mentioned, at least not about the Folkboat.
There is one in my club and based on what I've seen in club races she reaches pretty good.

Lots of fun with whatever long keeled boat it is going to be.

Cheers