Sloop verse Square Rig, Maltese Falcon vs Mirabella

[brian eiland]

How about a match race between two very different superyachts, one with a sloop rig, and the other with a 'modern' square rig.

"MV" vs "MF" (Mirabella V verses Maltese Falcon) unofficial challenge
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/27531-post49.html

The World's Three Largest
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/8815-post5.html

Square Rig Pointing (some aero questions here)
http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5991
regrettably this subject thread has been closed

...from the crew's diary...
"There have been many questions about our sailing numbers. In looking through these data, we discovered that our best VMG occurs at around 35 degrees apparent. With full sails set, we may get pretty close to the 30 degrees predicted by the computer/wind tunnel tests. Another interesting aspect, is how the boat performance changes in gusts. Unlike essentially all other sail boats---except, perhaps the AeroRig--- which try to round-up in strong puffs, the Falcon with her DynaRig, simply accelerates, with no effect on the helm and no change in heading. There a number of reasons for this: the center of effort of the rig is relatively low; the keel is relatively long; but most important, there is no change in the shape of the sails. Other rigs tend for the boom to lift and the sail top to twist, which leads to an adverse change in the weather-helm."

[SeaSpark]

Nothing to say about her performance yet but looking at the second picture, they pushed her quite hard during trials.

from http://www.symaltesefalcon.com/image...0THE%20DAY.htm

Some pictures of Mirabella V in 12 knots of breeze, note the reefed main, Pictures were taken during early trials.

From: http://www.theyachtreport.com/main/allnews2004.asp and www.ybw.com

[brian eiland]

Maltese Falcon, owned by US venture capitalist Tom Perkins, is using sail technology developed by the Germans 45 years ago called the Dynarig.

Tom Perkins bought the research work, which was never taken to its conclusion, and has developed it for his new superyacht.

The 1300-tonne yacht sets 15 square sails on three free standing rotating carbon fibre masts, has reportedly reached speeds in excess of 10 knots in true wind speeds of between 8 and 16 knots.

Congradulations Tom Perkins

[DanishBagger]

Okay, am I stupid for thinking that reaching 10 knots in wind speeds up to 16 knots aren't unheard of?

To me, it sounds akin to saying "we can sail 10 knots in wind up to 16 knots. The "8" seems to be there because it sounds nicer, and/or, because the boat is heavy so when first accelarated it won't slow down immediately.

Maybe I'm just a party pooper, though ...

[Paul Scott]

Any telltales anywhere on MF?

[SeaSpark]

http://www.doylesails.com/maltesefalcon.htm

hard on wind in 15.8 knots true, at 38 degrees relative wind angle. we sailed with no fuss or strain at 10.5 knots. On a close reach at 60 degrees relative angle, the speed (still at knots 16 true wind) climbed to 14 knots.

[usa2]

Shouldnt those things reach hull speed going upwind? I know Alfa Romeo and Wild Oats can do 14-15 knots upwind, and they are "only" 98.5 ft. (30m) long. If these superyachts waterlines are around 200+ feet, they should be able to sail upwind around 14 knots. Or am i missing something?

[SeaSpark]

Or am i missing something?

Maltese Falcon is a steel hulled hyper luxury mega yacht including jacuzzi 10+ plasma screens (i suspect) and so on. Alfa Romeo and Wild Oats are stripped down racers.

[usa2]

well i knew that. But even an underpowered 40 foot cruiser can reach hullspeed upwind, so why cant these things?

[brian eiland]

August 4 - Viareggio, Italy

Today's Photo of the Day is of Tom Perkins' recently-launched Maltese Falcon sailing past the Perini Navi Shipyard in Italy at what Perkins estimates to be about 13 knots. He doesn't know for sure, because he was back in California when the photo was taken. "If I'd been aboard," he says, "I might not have let the crew put the rail under in that gust!" The boat is powered, of course, by the unique Dynarig, in which 15 square sails are set on three unstayed rotating masts.

Later in the day, while between the Straits of Bonifacio that separates Corsica and Sardinia, Falcon hit 18.3 knots without much sail up. "The crew is waiting for me to return," says Perkins, "to use the check stays and then shoot for the 20-knot barrier for the first time."

The amazing thing about this photograph, taken by Giuliano Sargentini for Perini Navi, is how nimble the boat looks - for being 289-ft long and displacing 1,240 tons! She is, you'll remember, the largest privately-owned sailing yacht in the world. Falcon is available for charter at 335,000 euros a week, but if you were thinking about New Year's in the Caribbean, she's already booked for that popular time period

Photo Courtesy Perini Navi

[tspeer]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

..."our best VMG occurs at around 35 degrees apparent. "

Maybe she can foot off fast enough to achieve the maximum Vmg for 35 deg apparent, which would require she do 80% of wind speed at 62 deg to the true wind. That would give her a Vmg 37% of the true wind speed.

If she's doing, say, 55 degrees to the true wind, her boat speed is 60% of the true wind and her Vmg is 34%.

I don't find that very impressive. One only has to go to windward at 30 deg apparent and 45 deg to the true wind - a boat speed just over 50% of true wind speed - to beat it. I can beat her to windward in my F-24!

[Guillermo]

Maybe she's not an excellent performer, but I wouldn't mind to own her....

[tom perkins]

The performance numbers for the Maltese Falcon are still being explored. The polars indicate the possibility of really excellent up wind VMG, when full warer ballast (50 tons) and dagger board are used. In 25 knots true, the VMG upwind is predicted to be 10.25 knots, which would best all the other big yachts, including the J class boats---but posssibly not Mirabella V, if she dared to set her full sails.

We haven't yet had this wind in smooth water, and our dagger board is not yet manufactured, so it will be a while before we know how close we can eventually come to the predictions. Meanwhile the crew is sailing the yacht every day. The falcon is easily sailed on ond off her anchor, as readily as the old clippers without engines. She handles very easily, tacking in under two minutes and gybing in much less. Full sail is deployed in five point five minutes---the furling time is the same.

The yacht's first race will be in September in Sardinia, at the Perini Cup regatta. T.P.

[Leif HerrGesell]

Debating the obvious merits or demerits of a unique vessel that is in a class by itself is an exercise in ego. Those that attack innovation seldom have the courage to stand alone. We all desireto be right and want to say - "I told you so. . ." Personnaly I find the Maltese Falcon a singularily bizarre combination of aesthetics. It appears according to her owner and crew that she manages herself well and wishing her ill as many do is a sad statement about their own character. If the debate were one of form over function then I would err on the side of form. Mr. Perkins would err on the side of function and in a race he would most likely win. He doesn't seem to me to be a guy who loses much.

MF already seems to have survived her sea trials. Anything she accomplishes at this point is not going to change the minds of those who have decided to revile her for not being fore and aft rigged or because they don't care for the placement of her upperworks.

I hope she sets new records and if she doesn't it will in no way effect life as we know it. She is always- just a yacht. Man will always sail and men will always build boats.

Just the opinon of a sailor and a non designer.

That said, a match up between MF and MV would be fascinating!

[westlawn5554X]

Great insight I have jot down on my notebook. Its the spirit that we always forsaken for the price of Numbers.

Student