Slocum`s Spray

[Tad]

manx......

Find a copy of William (Billy) Atkin's book Of Yachts and Men. In it he discusses the design, construction, and sailing of Fore An Aft and her decedents, Ben Bow and Tally Ho! It's entertaining and interesting reading.

You'll find the Hess designed Bristol Channel Cutter much bigger inside than Fore An Aft. My friend Bryan Gittins, down the road in Cedar, builds the big sister to the BCC, the 34' by 11'7" Channel Cutter, which is positively huge. http://www.channelcutteryachts.com/

[manxman]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

The Lyle Hess cutter of which I spoke is the "Bristol Channel Cutter", as it is vaguely based on a historic pilot boat type of that area. Get a survey on any vessel from a surveyor skilled in the materials of her build. If a wood boat, make sure the surveyor has a reputation for finding the hidden problems inherent.

Thank you BATAAN!! I am now devoted to Lyle Hess. What neat boats these!

[manxman]

Originally Posted by Tad

manx......

Find a copy of William (Billy) Atkin's book Of Yachts and Men. In it he discusses the design, construction, and sailing of Fore An Aft and her decedents, Ben Bow and Tally Ho! It's entertaining and interesting reading.

You'll find the Hess designed Bristol Channel Cutter much bigger inside than Fore An Aft. My friend Bryan Gittins, down the road in Cedar, builds the big sister to the BCC, the 34' by 11'7" Channel Cutter, which is positively huge. http://www.channelcutteryachts.com/

Tad: thanks. I do have the Billy Atkin book, "Of Yachts and Men". I love the book. Not knowing much about sailing i am at everyones mercy of what type of boat to chose. Also Bataan has been very helpful, to which i am very grateful.
I am going to research The BCC's and although (not wood) will seriously consider fiberglass. Just a note I had 1 Lobster boat made from fiber glass, ( i have owned 5 boats). I hated it due to the liveliness of the hull, too jumpy and tender for me. I sold it after 2 years use. Any educating me in this area of hull materials would be much warranted and appreciated.
Thanks again manxman

[BATAAN]

Originally Posted by manxman

Tad: thanks. I do have the Billy Atkin book, "Of Yachts and Men". I love the book. Not knowing much about sailing i am at everyones mercy of what type of boat to chose. Also Bataan has been very helpful, to which i am very grateful.
I am going to research The BCC's and although (not wood) will seriously consider fiberglass. Just a note I had 1 Lobster boat made from fiber glass, ( i have owned 5 boats). I hated it due to the liveliness of the hull, too jumpy and tender for me. I sold it after 2 years use. Any educating me in this area of hull materials would be much warranted and appreciated.
Thanks again manxman

Glass Lobsterboats are quite a bit lighter than wood, so have a different motion. Many other lobstermen have said the same thing about a new, jerky and uncomfortable motion when they switched to glass boats.
A glass cruising sailboat weighs about the same as the wood equivalent, since we're talking about a design with outside ballast, and the difference between the two is not really noticeable.
Here's another series of nice, simple, f/g cruisers for you to drool over, from a builder of BCCs too, Cape George Marine Works.
This yard is close to me and I've seen a number of their boats.
Always highest quality workmanship with excellent, moderate hull designs. Last year a somewhat worn and faded, black Cape George Cutter about 40' long pulled into our harbor in NW WA state, and as I helped them tie up the woman on board said, "I can't believe we were in New Zealand last month!"
Here's the CG 31', and their Lyle Hess 28'.
The CGCs have more room than the Lyle Hess boats, are not quite as direct-heritage traditional, and are more modern. Oh, and they sail better I am told.
To get a view of extensive cruising and a circumnavigation in a very small, engine-less Lyle Hess, read the books by Larry and Lyn Pardey, in many libraries, SERAFFYN, SERAFFYN'S MEDITERRANEAN ADVENTURE, etc.
If you can find the book BLUE WATER CRUISING by Griffith, it's a very good primer on ocean cruising in a cutter, though larger. He circumnavigated in 60 degrees south....
http://www.capegeorgecutters.com/

[Harold B]

Originally Posted by rwatson

Yes, some very good points there.

Its a balancing act between saving a weeks passage using a lighter vessel, versus suffering from a 'difficult' craft for the extra speed.

One day someone will invent the 'perfect' boat .... real soon now

I think your idea af a light boat making faster passage is valid only in fair seas . I am going through my recollections of sailing yachts I saw offshore and except for some races all the sailing yachts that I saw were reefed down pretty hard so they were not sailing very fast even when the wind was below twenty knots the boats were reefed down. Being tossed around like a fresh donut in a sugar bag just isn't fun after a couple of days. Most were under a refeed main with no jib but most of my observations were in the North Atlantic and not in the fair weather of more southerly oceans

[Perm Stress]

Originally Posted by Harold B

I think your idea af a light boat making faster passage is valid only in fair seas . I am going through my recollections of sailing yachts I saw offshore and except for some races all the sailing yachts that I saw were reefed down pretty hard so they were not sailing very fast even when the wind was below twenty knots the boats were reefed down. Being tossed around like a fresh donut in a sugar bag just isn't fun after a couple of days. Most were under a refeed main with no jib but most of my observations were in the North Atlantic and not in the fair weather of more southerly oceans

It is a sad but true fact that many (too many) people, rich enough to own a yacht and sail her over the ocean do not have or want to have and learn skills, achieve stamina and mental approach to sail the boat properly -i.e. to set optimal sails for conditions, to go forward and change headsails, .... .
As I did notice from my fairly small practice, they often opt for "safest" and least physically/mentally demanding option.
They understand fully, that their skills are developed for other things, and often only care to sail good enough to reach the destination. If it mean trading 1/3 of speed for necessity to steer with attention and trim the sails (a few cm of this or that string over powered winch) every half an hour or so, why not?
Probably the Slocum's Spray type boat would suit their style of sailing better, but...

I have a feeling that nowadays there is an accepted norm to OWN more potential in your toy than you will ever care to USE to full or even half extent .

[SAE140]

Originally Posted by manxman

Boy am i glad i surfed this! I am researching Joshua Slocum's "Spray"! I am also a devotee of Pete Culler who had this same (close version) of spray built in the twenties. R. D. Culler who, as you all know, owned one and sailed it for 20 years.
It is very dis-heartening to me to hear all of the disparaging remarks made about Culler's dream boat. Especially when he himself had such success!
Hey to qualify myself i have been a commercial lobsterman and working on the high seas since 1974, 37 years! So i am no rookie to the sea, however, i have only owned 1 sailboat in my youth, a 16 foot wooden snipe that i bought from my girl friends father. I want to retire from fishing and travel globally in a traditional sailboat of classic and safe design. I also appreciate Billy Atkins 28 foot cutter , "fore and aft". I will be single handing so i need advice since i am no marine architect. I leave this to all of you "nautical wiseacres" to inform me. thanks

Well - I'm very surprised that anyone has replied to your post in view of your rather rude comment.
Wiseacre: A person regarded as being disagreeably egotistical and self-assured; one who pretends to knowledge or cleverness.

However, having said that, the only disparaging remarks I and several others have made in this thread relate to the Bruce Roberts version of 'The Spray', a design which has precious little to do with either Slocum's original Spray, or Culler's version of it.

Some of us have actually sailed in BR's 'Sprays' and our disparaging comments are therefore based on first-hand experience.

[manxman]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

Glass Lobsterboats are quite a bit lighter than wood, so have a different motion. Many other lobstermen have said the same thing about a new, jerky and uncomfortable motion when they switched to glass boats.
A glass cruising sailboat weighs about the same as the wood equivalent, since we're talking about a design with outside ballast, and the difference between the two is not really noticeable.
Here's another series of nice, simple, f/g cruisers for you to drool over, from a builder of BCCs too, Cape George Marine Works.
This yard is close to me and I've seen a number of their boats.
Always highest quality workmanship with excellent, moderate hull designs. Last year a somewhat worn and faded, black Cape George Cutter about 40' long pulled into our harbor in NW WA state, and as I helped them tie up the woman on board said, "I can't believe we were in New Zealand last month!"
Here's the CG 31', and their Lyle Hess 28'.
The CGCs have more room than the Lyle Hess boats, are not quite as direct-heritage traditional, and are more modern. Oh, and they sail better I am told.
To get a view of extensive cruising and a circumnavigation in a very small, engine-less Lyle Hess, read the books by Larry and Lyn Pardey, in many libraries, SERAFFYN, SERAFFYN'S MEDITERRANEAN ADVENTURE, etc.
If you can find the book BLUE WATER CRUISING by Griffith, it's a very good primer on ocean cruising in a cutter, though larger. He circumnavigated in 60 degrees south....
http://www.capegeorgecutters.com/

Thank you BATAAN! I am going to search for those books. I am also going to check out the link to CGC. Very impressed with the two drawings you provided. I am very grateful for all of your assistance, and for taking the time to respond to my posting. This has given me a whole new tack on my decision making and has taken me away from my traditional and narrow minded approach to this subject.
I really love CGC's vessels. What beauty and quality!! Your word "drool"
is very appropo (sp.) here! thanks