Should Power Assited Systems be Allowed?

Power Ballast Systems

First, these systems will never be successfully banned; second you're wrong about there being any significant advantage to moving the keel fast enough to scull a 98 foot ocean racer. And, in case I'm wrong, EVERYBODY would support limits to prevent ANY motive power being derived from a canting keel that isn't legal on any other boat. That kind of abuse would be nipped in the bud with 100% support from both sides of the issue. Even on the rc boats it takes a very violent action to make it work and is 100% illegal.And it uses exhorbitant amounts of power: a "canting sculled" boat would be beaten by a sailed boat everytime there is any wind-the boats are faster in a 2k wind then a "sculled" boat! Legal rolltacking is a good thing but to do it on a model takes tremendous skill.
Should abuses of Power Ballast Systems be attempted they will fail as miserably as any attempts to ban them....

 

They wont be banned, and nobody is calling for them to be banned. However, they should be put into their own rating classes rather than leaving them to beat up on fixed keelers with manual winches.

 

Victims

2, the "fixed keeler with manual winches(and a water based Power Ballast System)" knew the rules last year; they could have made any mods they deemed necessary. They did pretty well under what seems to be a fair handicap but the whining about sailing under rules EVERYBODY KNEW AND AGREED TO by entering the race is just a waste....

 

Well this controversy started in August i believe at Hamilton Island Race Week when Alfa Romeo was winning on IRC on both elapsed and handicap times. In fact, the Seahorse magazine mentioned how Alfa winning on handicap was causing concern and how if one of the supermaxis pulled off a "double" in the Hobart the ratings would have to be looked at. Well Wild Oats has done it, and now it will only be a matter of time...
In fact, all the 98's did well under IRC, with Konica Minolta moving up to 3rd on corrected time, and Skandia moving down to fifth. The only big boat to suffer from the rating system was AAPT(ex Nicorette) which finished 5th over the line but was dropped to 23rd on handicap. (Last year she was second on handicap). The rating system needs some adjustment because it does not take into account the performance potential of a fully powered up 98' supermaxi.

 

When you have enough power you will be able to dynamically move the ballast at each gust just like dinghy sailors do with their body weight. With more power you can bring in the sheets like mad and thus gain foreward motion.

Imagine a boat before the start in near zero wind. At the gun you swing up the keel an jerk in the sail, not in like the 3 minutes it takes now, but in a matter of seconds (pneumatic)?. The boat will simply shoot off. Maxi's will be outfitted with bigger and bigger engines, and become noisy beasts. Thats why they should sail in their own division.

 

Maybe the next progression on these powered boats will be to create their own apparent wind generated from the engine and fans to force wind across the sails.Once the boat is moving the fans will be shut off until a drop in speed is recorded,then just power them up again.Sounds crazy,but so did engine assisted keels not very long ago.

 

usa2. Actually the original post said f.a. about sailboats! Suggest you read before shooting off

 

Take a chopper's engine, say 1500 hp at 150 kgs, driving an oilpump with a specific gear-reduction in between - the whole package might weight 300 kgs.

Ueseless to any VOR 70, but then the maxi's might take over. And then? Formula 1 engines to power keel and winches or highly refined gasturbines as they supply best power to weight.

Excactly as RHough predicts, so that's the future: VOR 70 is already dead before the 2nd leg has been effectuated.

Now comes Bernie Ecclestone, having the magnificent 7 already under contract and composes now each year his "Round the World Maxi" - away with those poor '70-s; make way for the big ones. That's what the public wants!

Doug Lord claims that's good for the sport. It will attract more spectators, more tv time, more attention of the printed media and in this he is completely right.
The big public is totally indifferent of how a yacht wins. Even if it has to be by oars.

Ave ceasar, morituri te salutant!

 

Randy is most elegant in expressing his opinion: curt & concise. He must have been a slogan man for the teamsters.

Could the power-assisted canting keel be operated by the GPS as a way to overcome the "no autopilot" rule?

 

b4 I start, let me admit that I've only skim read this thread, so if someones already beaten me to the punch, then I apologise...

So canting keels are an engine-driven system and the sky is going to fall as a result. Sailing - can we still call it that? - will never be the same. Shame too - coz all the latest boats are so impressive... the world was just catching on to how fast and furious sailing could be... Hell even I (a die-hard powerboater)started to show an interest.
Nope, not for me any engine-driven ballast systems - stick to the old way of doing things.
Oh .. and btw .. how do they fill and empty those water-ballast systems so quickly - you know the ones they've used in the Volov boats and Sydney-Hobart for the last 5 or so years....
Forget progress - bring back the square-riggers! All these triangle shaped sails must surely be cheating - some of the boats even move faster than the wind - simply can't be allowed to happen....

 

Willallison: So canting keels are an engine-driven system and the sky is going to fall as a result.
Correct. Traditional sailors relying on wind alone will be SOL.

Willallison: Sailing - can we still call it that? - ...
No. I'ts called sail-motoring. Such a vessel would be called a Stored-Power-Assist Sailer-Motorer (SPASM)

Willallison: Hell even I (a die-hard powerboater)started to show an interest.
That's because they introduced motors. QED

 

LOL!

...in all seriousness - I say bing it on! Bigger, faster, better - pretty soon they'll be almost as good as the real thing...
If you take this 'stop progess - we're moving too fast!' thing to its (almost) natural conclusion, all the boats would have taken as long as "Gillawa"...seven days 10 hours - over five DAYS behind Wild Oats..

 

Am I the only one that thinks that the ballast system could be moved without an engine?

I'm not anti-progress nor anti-moving ballast, just anti-power assist.

Has anyone (besides me) even looked at trying to move the ballast another way?

I can see the moving ballast part of the equation transferring to faster passage makers using the engine to power the system.

I can see a place on fast passage makers for power assisted sail trim systems. A typical couple could safely handle a larger boat using power assists.

I want to see the technology developed.

If the systems were required to be powered by the hull and wind, they would become more efficient and require less power since all the energy to power the systems would slow the boat while in use. The more efficient systems would become even more user friendly for cruising passagemakers, since the systems would need less power to operate.

How about it, does anyone think that the systems could be sail powered?

 

There is a place for CBTF; In its own class.
Correcting time is a hit and miss affair anyway. There are too many variables.
Boat speed on all points of sail seems to me as the only equitable solution for
handicapping.Sidestepping the rules is for lawyers and racing cheque books.

 

Lets not point fingers at CBTF-any canting keel system is going to give the boat that has it an advantage over conventional fixed keel yachts (unless it's a small boat and/or improperly designed). As Roly said, they just need to put these boats in their own class. Over on SA, someone pointed out that nobody is really complaining about the Volvo Open 70's being power assisted because all the boats in that race are power assisted.