Should Power Assited Systems be Allowed?

Guilded trash?

It sems to me, correct me if I'm wrong, That the old IOR boats you mention are still fully found and seaworthy (at least as much as they were when they were built). And now they suffer from being 'unfasionable'. Meaning that the racing rules have changed and left them behind. Such a boat, arguably, like racing yachts from earlier eras, could be converted for cruising instead of racing.

That is not what I mean by 'throw away boats'.

What I mean is something that is put together with NASA style technology (and expense) that has the durability of a cardboard drink holder.

I have already come across one thread ('sailboats are evil') where there was bitching about such a boat. The thing was just a few years old and it was shot. When I mean shot, I mean practically unfixable. The discussion was about its new owner (poor guy) wanting to fix it up and the cost to do so being way out of reach.

Herreshof himself, built such a boat around a century ago. I don't recall whether or not it won the race it was supposed to. But I do remember that it was built out of galvanicly dissimiler metals and it corroded away in months if not weeks.

That boat, of course, was built during the twilight of the 'robber baron' era, or just before the great depression made them all run for cover.

Here we are again.

Bob

 

IMHO,
If Wild Oats record(s) stand without a caveart (P.Assisted), it will be, most probably, to the detriment of the S. H. and yacht racing in general.
"Yacht racing",as defined as, using power of wind only.
No thinking person can detract from the performance of the design and the
handling of Wild Oats, but to make changes to the interpretation of "The racing rules of sailing" to accomodate an input of non-manual energy, resulting in extra boat speed is blatantly unfair.
One wonders to the "back scratching" that went on.

No-wonder class racing is so popular and has longevity!

 

...the satisfaction...

..it would be a shame to fully eliminate these power-yachts from the same handicap fleets.It isn't everyday that a boat wins both line honors AND handicap,,in fact it's the first hobart race in which that happened since the first one.
If the handicap system gives an appropriate 'hit' for power-assist mechanisms,,then I'd be in favor of keeping their fine show going alongside the -real- sailors,afterall I'm sure the satisfaction of beating one of these with a much smaller 'pure' sailboat would be much worthwhile,,,not to mention the press and sponsors that are drawn in by the show(when they bust).

 

Sailpower!

The fact is that the Treble Record Wild Oats set stands now and will forever symbolize a major milestone in sailing history and technology.
The power and grace of this boat is apparent to all who see her and it is derived from man made technology that permits ballast to be moved on big boats in much the same way it is moved on the fastest skiffs. And for the same reason: to increase RM to allow greater speed.
But you can move ballast any way you want to and that doesn't make a boat fast: people make Wild Oats a winner; the people who designed her,the people who invented and perfected her CBTF technology, the people who built her hull, sails, mast and hardware and last but not least the people who SAILED her so brilliantly!
Get over the "unfairness" BS-the Tattersalls Trophy was in doubt for something like 24 hours. Give credit where credit is due: this is a great boat, a great crew and a hard fought and well earned Treble Record!
Edit: third place on handicap was Konica Minolta, a fixed keel leadbelly placing ahead of at least two NON-CBTF canting keel boats! To call the race unfair is just sour grapes and very uninformed!

 

"And for the same reason: to increase RM to allow greater speed"

that undermines your argument, because the power was used to increase the RM to allow greater speed. In other words, use power to increase speed.
The Tattersalls Trophy was only in doubt in the public's eye due to media ignorance. The boats that had a shot at the trophy would have had to average around 12 knots the rest of the way. In a straight line it would would seem that this was feasible. But they were sailing upwind, and tacking back and forth at 7-8 knots is a lot slower than sailing in a straight line at 12 knots.

 

Get over the "unfairness" BS

Whaaaat!..........personally I don't give a rats arse. Crews will probably keep coming back for the sheer physical challenge of the SH. anyway. Also, the credence given that handicapp win will be negligible in majority eyes.Whats new in corrected time! Unless you are one of the back scratchers.

How many shares did you say you had in CBTFco Doug?

 

Repent ye ragbaggers and wind jockeys!

Lord of Sail: The fact is that the Treble Record Wild Oats set stands now and will forever symbolize a major milestone in sailing history and technology.... To call the race unfair is just sour grapes and very uninformed!

Stand not in the way of progress, ye windborne bumpkins!! Stored-Power-Assist Sailer-Motorers (SPASMs) are here to stay! The Future of Yacht Design (FOYD) will pass by your miserable sailing vessels into the Brave New World of MOTOR-canted SPASMs! The powerful keel-canting MOTOR makes a SPASM somewhat faster than your obsolete wind-powered craft! To deny that SPASMs achieve higher speeds than are otherwise possible through the use of MOTORS employing STORED POWER is simply uninformed! To deny billionares and oil tycoons the right to squander their hard-plundered millions on these MODERN MOTORIZED YACHTS is unfair! The McYacht 26X is even now being redesigned to direct the energy of its POWERFUL 50HP ENGINE to a revolutionary new canting water-ballast tank! Every family with a combined net income of $100M/year or more will have a new SPASM at their disposal! Then where will you be, you ragbaggers? Where will you be with your quiet, unobtrusive sailing yachts, gliding unhurriedly amongst clouds and waves, dolphins and other creatures unafraid of your sails or your fixed keels? Where will you be with your safe, uncomplicated keels that require no STORED POWER to operate? Move over you lovers of nature and the unspoiled sea! A moderately faster SPASM with its MOTOR-canted keel is passing through!

Philippe Kahn (in ButtScuttle):
2. Return to Meaningful records: Every time we read "record smashed," it is almost hilarious: It takes a 100 ft canting keel maxi to "smash" the record established by a 60 ft sloop in the Sydney Hobart race. Check each major race around the world and you'll find new hyped, but meaningless records. Records in sailing should be about tremendous human achievements, performance, achievement and courage. We must get back to meaningful records....

 

Performance ,Achievement and Courage:Wild Oats!

Courage: entering the Sydney-Hobart is an act of courage especially in a brand new boat that had been out of the shop for only three weeks!
Wild Oats itself is a "tremendous human acievement" representing,as it does, one of the most sophisticated and one of the fastest 100 foot monohull sailboats ever built.
The "performance" of Wild Oats was second to none and the "achievement" of breaking the record,winning her division and winning on handicap even with a problem toward the end speaks to the courage and skill of the crew against the odds and is meaningfull in the greatest tradition of ocean racing.

 

i think people are overrating Wild Oats performance. She is 40 feet longer than the previous record holder, so how are they much comparable? Also, she beat Nokia's time by a little over an hour. With the same wind conditions. 40 feet should be worth more than hour over a 628 mile course. Also, any boat that can do 13+ knots under a 100% headsail does not really have the odds against her.
I personally believe that the most impressive Hobart line honors victory was in 2000, when the Swedish maxi Nicorette made the second fastest time to Hobart ever while beating upwind the entire way in rough seas.
As to the "courage" claim, that is somewhat true, but any boat entering the Sydney to Hobart could say the same thing, and i think its more true for the little boats than the big ones, because the big ones are only out there about 2 days, while the small ones are out for 3-5 days.
Anything powered by an engine is a human achievement, because humans invented them.

 

USA2
Exactly! Credit where it is due. Moderate downhill is good sailing.
This is not saying WO was not an outstanding effort,especially in the engineering dept. It will be a spectacle when the S H returns to normal or severe conditions, with a number of these p.a. craft.
My admiration goes to the traditional boats of more humble means;Longer time on the water;Physically demanding;No huge bankroll buffer.

BTW...what happened to Maximus?

 

Fact is that a number of people are considering the fact that the IRC rules have been illegally changed. The S-H sails under IRC ruling and the rules of 11.1 and 27.3 are as such that 27.3 that allows 51/52 to be changed is prohibited by 11.1 - according to an insider.

Although, nobody cared about those changes - so WO and Alfa amo profited and could go ahead even before the changes of ruling were published (according to insider).

The last word is not said, so to speak, we will wait for further proceedings.

 

maximus

She lost her rig in the Maxi worlds and then her owners decided to not pay to have her come back down under to do the S2H as all the big racing will be in Europe next year. I am not sure if they have gotten around to getting her a new mast yet. She would have done well in the S2H had she shown up.

 

badMax

You guys are funny-you can try every which way but you'll never tarnish Wild Oats victory-not now-not ever.
----
Maximus is in serious trouble; they violated the CBTF patent got caught red handed and are trying to come to an agreement with CBTFco to pay what they owe plus. CBTFco's patent is filed and granted in the US and pending in selected foreign countries.The same thing would have happened to Maximus that happened to the other canting keel/ripoff boats:utter, complete and total defeat...

 

We don't have to. She did that herself by using an engine to increase boat speed during a sailing race.

 

I dont recall Nicorette suffering utter, complete and total defeat last year. CBTFco has not gone after her. Also, it seems that the CBTF boats are more dependent on their engines than the other canters. (Skandia a notable exception). I dont think Nicorette or Maximus have to run their engines all the time. Maybe their owners decided to pay more for better batteries....