Sailing and knock downs

[TeddyDiver]

Some "educational" footage:
1# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk1o6...eature=related
2# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DG3jA...eature=related
3# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQIrMSI9YBo&NR=1
Any comment?

[Fanie]

Hi Teddy, check this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg72pTsthBw

I guess it's fun for some to walk on the walls of their boats.

[TeddyDiver]

Nice... Maybe they should consider having a longitudinal trampoline btw the bulkheads It's a looong way to drop down to leeboard

[terhohalme]

They all should consider having a cruising catamaran.

[ancient kayaker]

For #1 they might consider maintaining a lookout aft in a following sea!

[TeddyDiver]

And more.. also some more having their trampolines wrong way
4# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHimuDDAmks
5# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_ny9...eature=related
6# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqJ7YgN42Gg
7# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5dfA...eature=channel
8# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDgcW...eature=channel
Ouch!

[gonzo]

The common denominator is Spinakers. They are really lousy sails. The only reason they exist is because they beat a handicapp rule on sail area.

[Mezaire]

All of those were well and truly avoidable if the crew didn't stuff up or in some cases new what they were doing!!

1. The Helmsman is steering like he's driving a car through a continuos chicane!! Not good for rudder grip!
2. Another helsman error, simply running too deep
3. Running up a narrow peice of water in gusty conditions with the main on hard. And when the hit the gust no one eases the main or the vang for that matter!!

The Volvo 70 one was simply not getting the leeward runner of in time.

I sail a 32ft yacht in heavy winds most of the time and with a well drilled crew and a skipper that knows what he is doing it simply never happens.

That said, all of these guys probably know what they are doing, just pushing a little too hard!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgnJU2QySus

Mez

[Fanie]

Remember the clutched roto cleat I suggested a while back - the one that would let the sail out when the tension on the lines exceeds a certain pull strength - don't you think half this could have been avoided ?

Maybe they want to get knocked down.

[John.E]

Some thoughts about 1, 2 and 3...

1/ None event. Looked more like the cameran person fell over but what do I know, I wasn't there. One observation though, running with a reasonable follwing sea and the washboards out! If it was a knock down I assume they recovered the camera from the sea floor

2 & 3/ Broach. Nothing unusual for large dinghys with lids and even bigger kites up I doubt that either of these could have been avoided, short of having 'pre-cognative' crew along for the ride. It's what happens when you go out and play hard

I always think of knock downs as being really, really scary things. Big winds, even bigger seas. A rinse cycle for those on deck and blood across the inside of the coachroof for those below!

[capt vimes]

Originally Posted by John.E

I always think of knock downs as being really, really scary things. Big winds, even bigger seas. A rinse cycle for those on deck and blood across the inside of the coachroof for those below!

i had one of those with a 40' diva....
3:00 AM and a nasty steep and short sea with waves of 3-5 m from a front which came through with force 9 a couple of hours earlier while we have been moored in the marina...
the course was in a very tight angle to the short waves making the yacht pitch like hell...
i was at the helm when my comrade went under deck to put some warmer clothes on.. suddenly a breaking wave pushed the bow to starboard which brought the ship parallel to the waves... when i put rudder to port immediately, i looked and only saw a wall of water with i white crest at the hight of the 2nd spreaders rushing in....
i was not even thetherd to the yacht and after the wave has washed over me, i was standing with both feets on the backs of the cockpit seats and holding fast to the wheel - hiting my left shoulder as the yacht came crushing down the through...
my friend under deck got thrown all over the place right across the saloon - but furtunately did not got hurt...

that was really scary and it happened in a bathingtub of a sea - the northern adriatic! ;-)

[ancient kayaker]

If #1 was a camera person knockdown, then 3 of the monos recovered, and if the 4th did - video ended too soon - then that's 4/4 for the monos. Only 2 of the 4 cats continued to sail after the event, one was small enough for the sailor to right (2nd try) and the other was an amazing piece of luck!

[CT 249]

Originally Posted by gonzo

The common denominator is Spinakers. They are really lousy sails. The only reason they exist is because they beat a handicapp rule on sail area.

Sorry, Gonzo, but that is completely wrong.

Spinnakers do not beat any handicap rule on sail area. Every modern rule measures spinnakers.

Spinnakers just make boats go faster - as proven by (say) the 12 Foot Skiff class, where the sail area is not measured at all. They have the biggest spinnakers (proportionately) in the world.

It's only common sense that most boats want more sail area downwind than upwind. And spinnakers are fun and challenging.

Perhaps it's a bit arrogant of you to condemn 95% of racing sailors and rulemakers?

[gonzo]

It a difficult sail to handle. The rules limit how you can set it. If you are talking about asymetricals that is not what you see on the photo.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by gonzo

It a difficult sail to handle. The rules limit how you can set it.

What is the limitation under what rule that you are referring to?