Sailboats are evil...

Let me get this straight: you do sailboat design work and you don't know how to sail?!!
Incredible! Do you tell your clients that? How do you communicate with a client about sailboat design with no sailing experience?

[Thunderhead19]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I actually DID any of that design work. I just said that I grumbled when someone asked me to. As I mentioned, I don't understand the sailboat crowd.

By the way, how does a naval architect design an oil tanker without any experience as a crewman or ships officer? How does a naval architect communicate with a client about a design for a 112' motor yacht without having owned one, or even skippered one? How many of the engineers who worked for Boeing have actually flown one of their jets? OH NO, that must mean that none of those people really know how to do their job!!!! I'll never go out of the basement again!!!

A powerboater gets into the boat and is in a hurry to get where he's going.

A sailor gets in his boat, casts off his bowline, and has already arrived.

[Dutch Peter]

Is somebody really trying to win this discussion??!!!!
Thunderhead has had the unfortunate luck to meet the "Evil Sailor", not only feared and despised by powerboaters but also by us blowboaters (great expression, btw!!!!).
Stop quarreling and try to find a good side of the opposite party.

I've never left the earth's gravity, or even its atmosphere, yet I helped design the International Space Station.

I've never flown a jet fighter, yet I work on the design of one now.

I've never flow a commercial airliner, yet I did engineering work on the MD80/MD90, MD11 & 717 jets.

Many of the guys who work on Formula One race teams don't drive race cars, yet they are able to design the most advanced racecars in the world.

I'll bet a person who knows how to design a sailboat stands a better chance of sailing one than a person who knows how to sail stands at designing one.

You can understand how things work without ever using one.
Using the items you design can certainly make you a better designer.
I'd be happy to pilot a fighter jet in order to become a better engineer, but it'd be a bit expensive to that for all of the engineers on each program.

Originally Posted by Lorsail

Let me get this straight: you do sailboat design work and you don't know how to sail?!!
Incredible! Do you tell your clients that? How do you communicate with a client about sailboat design with no sailing experience?

I'd love to own sveral boats.

A large cruising sailboat.
A small cruising sailboat.
A large racing Multihull sailboat.
A small racing multihul sailboat.
A large Monohull racing sailboat
A racing dinghy (several sizes, actually)
A couple of mid-size racing monohulls (keelboats and swing keel)
An old restored tugboat or trawler.
A large Cigarrette boat with dual or triple big blocks.
A big racing mulrihull powerboat.
An unlimitted hydroplane.
A smaller hydroplane.
A dragboat style powerboat (jetboat maybe)
A tournament ski boat.
A big motoryacht.
A steam launch (Like the African Queen).
A houseboat.
An amphibian like a Duck (GMC DUKW-353)
A few small dinghies like sabots, optimists, or el toros.
A sea kayak.

The point is that every boat has advantages.
Just because you own one type doesn't mean that it is the best.

Originally Posted by Thunderhead19

I got soured on sailboats because of the habits of a few people.
I'm going to go learn how to sail now.

Overall, I have found sailors to be more considerat than powerboaters (as a group).

You don't get a lot of sailors making enough wake to cause damage as they leave a harbor.

I would like to see statistics on the sobriety while in command for the two groups.

I'd like to see also the level of training compared. Not just training specific to sialing, but rules of the road, safety, and general seamanship.

Sadly, it used to be far more rare that a person would encounter an impolite or discourteous sailor. But I too have encountered rude people from both the sail and power groups in recent years.

[Thunderhead19]

I keep trying to flee the forum, but the morbid curiosity over who's going to say what next keeps pulling me back in. The underlying schism between sub groups seems to have been exposed! This started out as an attempt to gain some insight, with a post that was obviously ridiculous, obviously not intended to be taken all that seriously by anyone. Good natured, blended whiskey fueled, ribbing. On it's face it is so silly. Suddenly people are at eachothers throats. (I think this is how bar fights get started. )
Sheesh, I thought maybe one person would reply telling me "try it, you might like it". Or at least "put down the bottle and get a life". What have we learned from this??????

[sorenfdk]

Try it, but do bring the bottle ;-)

[Tad]

how does a naval architect design an oil tanker without any experience as a crewman or ships officer? How does a naval architect communicate with a client about a design for a 112' motor yacht without having owned one, or even skippered one? How many of the engineers who worked for Boeing have actually flown one of their jets? OH NO, that must mean that none of those people really know how to do their job!!!!

Pretty much.

I'll just assume this is another pointless troll?

If you attend the Webb Institute of Naval Architecture, not only will they get you into some design offices, but they will send you out on a ship. This only makes sense. In the past twenty years I have met many yacht designers, the good, the bad, and the indifferent. Invariably, invariably, the ones with significant sea time were the best at what they did. This holds for yacht designers, naval architects, interior designers, and exterior stylists, whatever. Have a look around at the most successful designers of anything, you bet they have significant experience with whatever it is they are trying to design.

I have designed 20m dollar sailing yachts, I'll never own one, but I do have thousands of hours at sea in moderate sized sailing vessels, and in large power vessels, and lots of time on the shop floor dealing with construction problems. If something else was the case, I would, in fact, be a lousy designer.

When young people come to me for advice on being a yacht designer, I tell them to go out on boats, for a few years!

All the best, Tad

[Thunderhead19]

Point well taken, however I still believe that someone like me, with perhaps a little guidance from someone like you, or Paul Gartside (whose brain I've picked numerous times) could do a competent job without having gone sailing (i'm sure Paul will beg to differ). I also believe that there are people out there who've sailed for years, and couldn't design a useable sailboat hull. As I said, I'm going to get out there and do it. No question that it can make a difference in both large and small ways. Everything from locating a windlass to locating a cup holder in just the right spot.

I need to get out to Gabriola again too, and soon.

I never flew a jet fighter, but I certainly built and flew my share
of model airplanes.

Also flew hang gliders and occasional general aviation.

I guess I can't say I have absolutely no relevant experience.

I have always believed the best engineers are ones that have spent
a lot of time working in manufaturing & fabrication.

[tspeer]

Well, be thankful for the sailboaters! When the Cadillac VanIsle 360 fleet pulled into Pt Hardy, the Mayor said, "We like you sailors. You spend money. You're not like them kayakers."