Sail maker

[dskira]

Does someone knows a sail maker willing to make a sail in cotton?
I will greatly appreciate. I spend a lot of time trying to find one, but after hitting a wall, the forum is my ultimate resource, so I hope some one, some where knows one of these sail maker.
I know the material is difficult to come by due to the loosely thread of the duck and other canvas, but I think for that I have a lead. And certainly if a sail maker is still doing cotton sail, that person will knows who makes the material.
Thank you all
Daniel

[hoytedow]

Good luck, Daniel. I don't know anybody with such skills.

[hoytedow]

There is this one, among others, if you google canvas sails:

http://www.canvasandsails.com/photo_gallery.htm

[lewisboats]

Try talking to Todd Bradshaw over at woodenboat forums.

[dskira]

Thank you both.
I will try Todd. Good idea.
Thanks Hoyt, I will try your search.
Daniel

[Angélique]

Hi Daniel,

It's a bit far, so just for info....

In Holland it's difficult to find a sailmaker who still has sources for the original Egyptian cotton cloth that's traditionally used for hand-finished sails on their traditional flat and round bottomed boats. Still there are some, but I don't know their names. I do know Punterwerf Wildeboer offers cotton sails as an option, so they know a sailmaker who is able to make them and has a source for the material.

Sail maker and rigger Jan Schokker has the following info about the subject on his site, scroll down to ‘‘Zeildoek voor ronde en platbodemschepen’’

I'll post a Google translation in the qoute with some minor translation corrections by myself.....

Canvas for traditional round and flat bottomed boats

The original Egyptian cotton cloth that is traditionally used for the hand-finished sails on traditional flat and round bottomed boats is virtually no longer available. There will always remain sailing boats with cotton sail. Their owners are enthusiasts who want to keep their ship original and that includes cotton sails. A Dacron sail on their ship is like swearing in church. They know, usually through an association, how to get their hands on a batch of Egyptian cotton cloth. Making a sail of cotton cloth is much more labor intensive than making a sail of Dacron. Cotton cloth does not melt and therefore is not to cut on our thermal cutter.

They do have an alternative which is almost indistinguishable from cotton, scroll the above link down to ‘‘Clipper Canvas’’

Again a Google translation in the qoute with some minor translation corrections by myself.....

Clipper Canvas

But there is hope, a few years ago the English cloth manufacturer Hayward brought Clipper Canvas on the market. A polyester fabric that looks almost indistinguishable from Egyptian cotton. It even feels like cotton. It is raw polyester yarn woven on the looms on which the former cotton cloths were woven. It is available in off white and light brown.


click to enlarge

Compared to cotton cloth it has a number of important advantages: Lighter weight, much less stretch and no shrinkage, thus considerably less distortion of the sail. It takes almost no moisture and is much less susceptible to mold and rot. It is quite affordable, slightly more expensive than Dacron.


click to enlarge

Because it's thermal cuttable the digital design can be cut on our thermal cutter. You are assured of a perfect sail shape. Clipper Canvas is a rough, almost non-stabilized (non-finished) fabric. Dacron is woven of much finer and higher quality yarn and then also on improved looms. Also Dacron undergoes, unlike Clipper Canvas, numerous finishing operations and is ultimately much lighter, more compact and firmer of shape.

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For whom is Clipper Canvas suitable?

You will find the classic look is more important than the performance of your schip. You would prefer to sail a cotton but without all the drawbacks. You find it important that the sail is soft, not shiny and easily folding.

We have fabric samples on request.


click to enlarge

If you like the 'Clipper Canvas' I hope you can find it in the US.

For availability and general info, the manufacturer Heathcoat fabrics ---> Richard Hayward brand.

You also could ask Jan Schokker for info about this matirial, they're nice people, I'm sure they're willing to share information.

And... nice to see you back Daniel

Good luck!
Angel

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by lewisboats

Try talking to Todd Bradshaw over at woodenboat forums.

His profile there also holds a regular e-mail address, and you can give him a call here or here.

Cheers,
Angel

[lewisboats]

Here's a thread from woodenboat forum with some info and an address... in England but still...

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...85d5263e32c3a1


and these guys have done cotton sails

http://www.gambellandhunter.net/new/Our_Sails.html

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by lewisboats

and these guys have done cotton sails

http://www.gambellandhunter.net/new/Our_Sails.html

Ah... they're in Maine and they also do business with Hayward of the Cotton like Clipper Canvas

Cheers,
Angel

[dskira]

Yes I know him, his sail loft is at 5 miles from my house. I asked him but he do not make real cotton sails anymore, he repairs them.
Every modern so-call cotton feeling are very good, but they all have the same drawback: they can't stand the sun.
And they don't have the magic feeling of the cotton.
Oceanus the same. I really love Oceanus material, but it is not real cotton.
The cotton take the sun, but need some precaution for molds.
Just a good bath of Cuprinol will do.
I love cotton, I started sailing with cotton sail, and it is the best material for a sail. For me.
It is just I have an incontrollable need of real things.
When I can And now I can.
I don't mind to take care and having high maintenance rig and hull, it is part of having a boat.
Todd e-mail me saying my dimension are to big for him, and the only cotton he has is very light.
Angel, I see you everyday, since the Angelique is berthed in Camden, and it is where I go everyday to just clear my head and shoot the breeze with friends, or take a cup of Joe.
I know I will end up with a so call cotton, it is the way to go
Thank you all
Daniel

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by dskira

Angel, I see you everyday, since the Angelique is berthed in Camden, and it is where I go everyday to just clear my head and shoot the breeze with friends, or take a cup of Joe.

Was there this summer and enjoyed it very much. The harbor, the hiking, the views from the top... the highlight of our vacation this summer, actually. One of the nicest places in the country (but don't let the secret out!)

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by dskira

Angel, I see you everyday, since the Angelique is berthed in Camden, and it is where I go everyday to just clear my head and shoot the breeze with friends, or take a cup of Joe.

I'll look her up . . . . . . . . . . . .

I see Angelique is on top of Gambell and Hunter's homepage so I tracked down her sails...

The first two sets of sails we made for this 95' OD steel ketch were out of specially dyed and treated #4 Cotton Canvas.

The current set is 16 oz. "Clipper" cloth, a polyester fabric designed to have a canvas look and feel.

I'll guess that "Clipper" cloth of her current set is Hayward Clipper Canvas . . . . .


- nice wheel



Don't mind she's called a Schooner here, the pic is OK

Btw, I was recently sold in England

Cheers,
Angel

[hoytedow]

Sure and you fetched a fair price.

[BATAAN]

Even if you leave your Clipper cloth uncovered, it will last much longer than cotton. Egyptian cotton is wonderful sail material but it has problems that Dacron or clipper does not. It must be covered just like Dacron, because the sun does degrade it. If wet, it must be carefully dried then covered. It does not tolerate neglect at all and soon dies if ignored.
Here's a 1901 schooner for which I made sails 40 years ago. I bought 70' luff marconi hand-seamed Egyptian cotton sails from Bacon and Assoc in Maryland for cheap. They were made in the 50s and used for one season then stored, and were in wonderful, almost new shape. I cut the head off and modifed them for a gaff fore and main on this 50' boat, and they worked fine, until a seam let go in the foresail at midnight in a gale, crippling the ship and nearly wrecking us on Duxbury reef. Without heavy ground tackle we would have died.
The other photo is my present boat which uses Duradon, an artificial flax, for the mainsail, and I am very happy with it. My headsails are Clipper cloth, and pretty bulletproof. Mizzen is dacron and I don't like the shape much, but it's not the cloth's fault. A new mizzen would be Clipper. I use sail covers and the last mainsail lasted over 20 years.

[pdwiley]

Originally Posted by dskira

Does someone knows a sail maker willing to make a sail in cotton?
I will greatly appreciate. I spend a lot of time trying to find one, but after hitting a wall, the forum is my ultimate resource, so I hope some one, some where knows one of these sail maker.
I know the material is difficult to come by due to the loosely thread of the duck and other canvas, but I think for that I have a lead. And certainly if a sail maker is still doing cotton sail, that person will knows who makes the material.
Thank you all
Daniel

I just got a new sail plan for my boat. Tom Colvin recommends a woven cloth called Top Gun as it has a lot of the handling characteristics of cotton but a lot less stretch and is more robust. I found a few places on the net where it could be bought including an agent local to me. Currently I'm thinking I'll make my own sails but we'll see. As it's a junk rig I doubt the local sailmakers would be interested or affordable anyway.

Tom made some comment that leads me to think that he still might make sails but I really don't know. You can contact him via his Web site if you want to know.

PDW