RS 600-a Peoples Foiler?

In this mornings Scuttlebutt:
Scuttlebutt News: Learning to fly
Address:http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/0308/
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Apparently, the RS 600 Foiler is in production:
Full Force Boatbuilding
Address:http://www.fullforceboats.com/hydrofoils.shtml Changed:7:01 AM on Tuesday, March 13, 2007
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From: editor@sailingscuttlebutt.com(Curmudgeon) Date: Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 6:08pm (EDT-3) To: lorsail@webtv.net Subject: Scuttlebutt 2299
SCUTTLEBUTT 2299 – March 13, 2007
LEARNING TO FLY
The International Moth has opened our eyes to foiling, and the application of hydrofoils is spreading. In Issue 2294, Scuttlebutt reported how UK boatbuilder Linton Jenkins had successfully produced a set of foils designed specifically for the RS600, a popular singlehander that was now testing their use for possible class racing. To facilitate the introduction of foil sailing to the uninitiated, the Sailing Talk newsletter has gotten 2006 British International Moth Champion Sam Pascoe to provide his best tips for anyone getting foiling for the first time.
Sam provides nine more rules for first-time foilers:
http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/0308/
GR

[PI Design]

I think the RS600 is only available new in non-foiling (standard) format from LDC. You then buy the foiling kit from Full Force as a retro fit.
The likely reality is that very few (if any) new 600's will be built - they were popular for a few years but have since been largely replaced by the RS700 (which is easier to sail upwind and has a kite downwind) - but the foiling kit may encourage some 600's to be pulled out of the undergrowth and put in the water again.
I'm not entirely sure how easy/safe foiling from a trapeze is, but it looks quite fun.
RS600s have been selling at very low prices on the secondhand market so this could be a cheap way to get foiling.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

In this mornings Scuttlebutt:
Scuttlebutt News: Learning to fly
Address:http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/07/0308/
-------
Apparently, the RS 600 Foiler is in production:
Full Force Boatbuilding
Address:http://www.fullforceboats.com/hydrofoils.shtml Changed:7:01 AM on Tuesday, March 13, 2007

Doug,

Just where do you get the buzz from, my boy? This article was posted almost two weeks ago by the Curmudgeon and you're just rolling around on it this morning? Look carefully at the byline... it says March 2, 2007 and not this morning as you indicate. Second... there was a follow-up article in the same publication on March 6, 2007.

You post this stuff like it's fresh. Are you falling off your game on the foiler fluff, or what?

PI is correct about all the info regarding the 600 and 700 series hulls. What would lead you to believe that this is a People's Foiler at all, even if there were such a thing? I'm tending more towards a bunch of guys fooling around in their garage than towards any kind of production craft at all.

No need to get into any of the same old arguments against fiddly, complicated, expensive. etc. They still apply.

Chris

For those that don't know anything about the RS 600 here are the stats. Couldn't find any foil area stats on the RS 600:
LOA 14' 8" Moth 11'
Beam 6' 4"- 7' Moth 7'1"
Hull Weight 115lb. Moth around 20lb.
Boat sailing weight: 167 lb. Moth 66 lb.
SA: 131 sq.ft.;reefable Moth 86 sq.ft.
All up sailing weight with 160 lb. crew: 327 Moth:226
All up weight divided by SA: 2.49lb. per sq.ft. Moth: 2.62*
* with a 144lb(approx. Rohans weight) person on the Moth: 2.4lb. per sq.ft.
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So the RS 600 is capable of starting foiling in about the same wind(from power to weight standpoint but probably not from a SA/wetted surface standpoint) as a Moth and should be an excellent foiler based on this small amount of info. One thing though: the Moth probably has less wetted surface in seahugging mode and the RS 600 might be a bit easier to learn to sail-but not by much.
Apparently, there are a lot of used RS 600's around providing a fairly inexpensive way to get foiling....

[gggGuest]

The trouble is less than 400 RS600s were ever built, so its not going to be the basis for a mass market anything...

[RHough]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

The trouble is less than 400 RS600s were ever built, so its not going to be the basis for a mass market anything...

Please don't inject facts into "People's Foiler" threads. If you must post facts, you might try the TP52 thread.

[bistros]

I actually enjoy the undying Volksfoiler (tm) threads. Not for any practical, sporting or transportational value, but for the humor and tension! I keep wondering how low Chris' blood pressure would be if Doug didn't keep breaking out the paddles, charge to 300 ... clear! Zzzzt! Presto, new life to the stillborn Volksfoiler(tm).

Think about it, there could be a VolksFoylrr class for the grrls!

I go and watch Formula One races in Montreal on an annual basis - there is no other no-holds-barred, money-no-object racing scene in the world that come close in technology application, sheer scale or substantive results. That doesn't mean I think soccer Moms, teenagers or preoccupied Dads should drive an F1 beast (or could go 3 meters without crashing).

I've thought of photoshopping foils onto random hulls just to post pictures to Scuttlebutt, SA or LSD - just to get Doug going! Think about it .... T-foils 'shopped onto ... say ... a 16Kg "carbon" Opti hull .. sporting a I-14 rig, with movable water ballast wing tanks, dragging a bored euro-wakeboarder from a mast head wire ... with a mondofranco supermaxipad foiling trimaran in the background at ... almost .... 49.9999 knots ... in 12 knots actual wind. You could invent Rohan Veal quotes about welcoming the new competition.

[Chris Ostlind]

AACK! somebody send in the crash cart!

Very funny stuff, my man. It's good to laugh in the morning with a cup of hot coffee in one's hand. I'm sure a few of you know what a gimbaled arm looks like.

Actually, I'm doing alright now that this, CDC tracked, Moth Fever has subsided from its previous, foamy incarnation. Apparently, there are still a couple of very localized outbreak sites that have not been brought under control. Medication has been dispensed and the population is returning to normal patterns.

Volksfoiler... too friggin rich.

Taking your Photoshop cue... I really don't see any reason why a tournament grade Ping-Pong table could not be married to a set of foils so that the owner can have a full, recreational experience when the wind isn't blowing. Just jab those jump-tested foils down into the sand and have a go with your paddles. The beach would be a great place to get aerobic conditioning and strengthen your leg muscles in prep for the return of the breeze.

Since Ping-Pong (table tennis) is already a recognized Olympic sport, it would be a perfect way for the Mothies to piggyback their boats into the Games if they can't come in the front door of the sailing committee.

Chris

More on the RS:
RS600FF - you'll believe a boat can fly!
Address:http://www.sailingtalk.com/RS600FF.html Changed:8:44 AM on Sunday, March 18, 2007

[PI Design]

I read in the latest Yachts & Yachting the the RS600 foiling kit costs £3,500. That seems a lot of money for a couple of foils and a wand. At that price it more than doubles the price of a decent secondhand 600.

Originally Posted by PI Design

I read in the latest Yachts & Yachting the the RS600 foiling kit costs £3,500. That seems a lot of money for a couple of foils and a wand. At that price it more than doubles the price of a decent secondhand 600.

Pi, thats not true; read the link I posted. A new set of foils is 2500 pounds; boat est. 2500 total all up 5000....

[PI Design]

Fair enough, Y&Y seem to have it wrong (but Andy Rice wrote both articles I think, I'll check). Still doubles the price of the boat mind you...

Conventional 600s are notoriously hard to sail, so the foiling version ain't gonna be for beginners. Should be spectacular though.

[Chris Ostlind]

I'm sure the guys in England realize this, but for all the folks who deal in US Dollars... as of today, that lovely 5000 figure that Doug is tossing around is actually going to hit you for $9805.49 in US currency and that isn't counting whatever shipping costs you may have to incur to get one of these used darlings over the Atlantic.

Yep, we've finally hit the skids in this discussion. We've arrived at the point where some people's desperation has exceeded their grasp of reality.

This, over $10K, used boat is not ever gonna be a, what was it Bistro called it... Oh, yeah, The Volksfoiler!

"Pssst, hey son, wanna buy a cool, previously thrashed RS morphed Volksfoiler? Just get your Dad to sign right here on this line and I can get one to you in, oh, about four weeks, give or take"

Yeah, that'll work in my house. If my son hit me with that proposal, he'd be on medication the next day.

Chris

Heres more info on the RS600FF from one of the developers.It appears as though Andy and his team have put together and incredible boat. If the boat is as fast as Andy says it will beat a whole fleet of dinghies costing TWO TO THREE+ times as much as it does including most catamartans and monohulls under twenty feet.

Yes, there was about 18 to 20 knots of wind blowing in the YouTube video you've seen on SA. The RS600 is also using the small rig (the standard RS600 comes with a two-step mast with a zip-up mainsail).

The boat has foiled in just 7 to 8 knots of breeze, and if you want proof you can see another YouTube video here.

http://www.sailingtalk.com/RS600FF-video.html
I've been involved in developing the RS600FF and we have to say we're pretty surprised the boat foils as early as that. Like other people have commented, we thought it would take 9 or 10 knots to get it foiling but it gets up on its foils about as early as the Moth. Maybe this is because it's got 50% more sail area (with the big rig) than a Moth, so even though the boat is heavier its power to weight ratio might be about the same.

By the way, the top speed now recorded is 23.4 knots. Sam Pascoe who is the guy sailing the boat in the video (and is the reigning British champion in the International Moth) reckons he'll top 25 knots by the summer, and believes 30 knots is achievable sometime in the next year. His record in the Moth is 26 knots, so Sam knows what he's talking about.

Thanks to SA readers who have enquired about buying a RS600FF to sail in the USA. We'd love to get a fleet up and running there, although the $/Pound exchange rate means the boat isn't as cheap on the other side of the pond. But if you're interested in buying one, get in touch and send me an email to:

RS600FF@sailingtalk.com

Hopefully in the next few months we can work something out for the US market. We have launched the boat very much at the UK market, but we've had enquiries from a few European countries too, so who knows, maybe there'll be an international circuit one day.

Cheers

Andy