Reefing a lanteen sail

[science abuse]

I'm about to begin stitching the first set, to reduce sail area about 30%.

I thought it wise to come here and ask if there's any special considerations I may have overlooked with the lanteen format. It seems fairly straightforward but you never know until you try it!

Has anyone here tried this before?

[gonzo]

Where are you putting the reef point?

[science abuse]

I opted to put them on an existing seam that ran from the tack to the leach. I wanted to stitch into something that already had some layers and some strength.

[sharpii2]

When you say 'lateen' , I assume you mean a boomed lateen, which has a boom at the foot of the sail which is the same length as the yard.

When reefing such a sail, the thing to watch out for is a changing Center of Area (CA). As the sail is reefed, the CA will move aft. This can cause the boat to have a severe weather helm.

The cure for this is to shift the connection point between the boom and the mast further aft on the boom.

To figure out just how far aft, draw a scaled diagram of the original sail, find its CA, then measure how far it is from the mast.

Next. Draw a scaled diagram of the reefed sail, find its CA, and see how far it's from the mast.

Subtract the distance the CA is from the mast with the full sail from the distance it is from the reefed sail. That is how far back on the boom the attachment point to the mast has to be moved.

[BATAAN]

If the reef line is parallel to the yard, as is usual in a loose footed lateen, you may have to move your sling point aft on the yard as you reef. I always used a fisherman's bend for this on small lugsails and it may work with your rig too.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by BATAAN

If the reef line is parallel to the yard, as is usual in a loose footed lateen, you may have to move your sling point aft on the yard as you reef. I always used a fisherman's bend for this on small lugsails and it may work with your rig too.

I don't believe he specified a loose footed one.

Most lateen sails I have seen are of the Sunfish(r) type, which really look like low aspect ratio Bermuda rigs.

[Hussong]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

Most lateen sails I have seen are of the Sunfish(r) type, which really look like low aspect ratio Bermuda rigs.

Huh? Perhaps you can help me with that observation? A friend of mine sees no resemblance to the Bermuda rig, other than it has a mast and a sail.

[peterchech]

Does no one use traditional lateens? I would think you could roller reef one if you had to...

I like these:

[troy2000]

Originally Posted by Hussong

Huh? Perhaps you can help me with that observation? A friend of mine sees no resemblance to the Bermuda rig, other than it has a mast and a sail.

Hard to see how he could miss it. The overall shape of some modern high-aspect lateen rigs, with their almost vertical yards, approximates that of a Bermuda rig with a raked mast. The lines tend to blur between them and gunter rigs, also.

When you say "a friend of mine," is that in the same league as the guy who calls Doctor Laura and says, "doctor, my friend has this problem..."?

[gilberj]

I have used a latine rig some...many years ago. After being blown across the lake one time, I reallized I needed to be able to reef. Mine was a boomed sail, but I'd probably do pretty much the same for a loose footed sail. My reef reduced the area by about 30% bringing the gathered sail to the boom. I had a single line which went from the boom to an out-haul back to the boom and up through a reef point. a bit makeshift but it worked. I'd not reef up to the yard as that would interfere with the leading edge, possibly just when you need it to work best.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by peterchech

Does no one use traditional lateens? I would think you could roller reef one if you had to...

I don't know how you could roller reef one of those - the 'sling point' would have to expand to incorporate the extra cloth, and would have to go though holes in the sail anyway.

[peterchech]

Gary Dierking has done it but its a pain. You have to have a handcuff looking device that the yard hangs on. You roll up the sail then tighten the "handcuff". I've never done it myself but have seen pics on the outrigger/proa thread on woodenboat forum, I think page 28 or 29.

Another option for reefing, if a boomed lateen, may be a brailing line, Polynesian style.

The lateen really appeals to me and I plan on experimenting with it a bit next season on my outrigger canoe.

[sharpii2]

Originally Posted by Hussong

Huh? Perhaps you can help me with that observation? A friend of mine sees no resemblance to the Bermuda rig, other than it has a mast and a sail.

If you have ever seen a low aspect ratio Bermudan sail, like on a Chesapeake "Skipjack", It looks a lot like a "Sunfish(r)" sail, at least from a distance.

A more traditional western lateen usually is loose footed, with the sail hanging from the yard like a triangle drape. The yard slopes up from the deck at a 45 to 60 degree angle, so the clew hangs down almost vertically to be sheeted to some point on the deck. This is to maximize the amount of triangle sail per length of yard, or, failing that, per length of deck.

Once a boom is added to the foot, the yard can slope up at a much greater angle, as the boom can hold the clew out, even past the end of the deck, if need be. This further increases the amount of sail that can be carried per length of yard. Typically, the boom and the yard are the same length. It seems that 75 degrees is what is used on a Sunfish(r) type sail. I have never measured it, so I'm only guessing.

[Hussong]

Originally Posted by troy2000

... with their almost vertical yards, approximates that of a Bermuda rig with a raked mast.

So does a flag at a carnival. I really love the term, "approximates" when Sharpii's comment ("which really look like low aspect ratio Bermuda rigs.") said no such thing. I guess that editorializing for purposes of making obtuse comparisons is alive and well in Troyville.

Originally Posted by troy2000

When you say "a friend of mine," is that in the same league as the guy who calls Doctor Laura and says, "doctor, my friend has this problem..."?

Interesting that you would go there from a simple comment. Makes one think that you dwell in the zone as suggested a bit too much.

[Hussong]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

If you have ever seen a low aspect ratio Bermudan sail... at least from a distance.

I would guess that one could stretch about any supposition to meet the criteria, but it comes down to this: why name them differently if one is going to try so hard to make them the same?

Why not this for a type of sail descriptor? A high aspect lateenish type of sail that when seen from a distance can look for all intents and purposes as if it were possibly a poorly drawn and executed Bermudan rig of some sort that looks that way because of wind, heat and water effects. All bets are off if you see up close, however.