Questions on Rigging...

[Brady]

If it is not included in the plans, how does one best determine what "gauge" of rope to use? If it's a 12", sloop, with 48" square of surface on the sail, mast is 18"....?

Second, in the early 1700's, was standing rigging ended on pins, did it just dead hand into hardware on the deck... or...?


Thanks
Brady

[Landlubber]

I would have thought standing rigging was ended on deadeyes, running rigging ends on pins....

[PAR]

I suspect you mean feet not inches, correct? If you do mean inches, I can't help you, try a modeling site.

On small boats, they didn't use deadeyes, but used thimbles. A whip or gun tackle was looped through the thimbles and seized up after adjustment. The standing rig was of course tarred up, with whipped thimbles on the ends of the shrouds and stays. The chain plates had a thimble on the end. It was fairly rare for standing rigging to terminate on a pin, though there were exceptions. This is mostly because of what happens to a line once it's tarred up. You really don't want to disturb it unless you have to.

It would be helpful if we knew what boat you were attempting to rig. Modern lines will be much stronger then the tarred hemp employed in the 18th century, but the scale and texture will be wrong. You can get close with a black nylon triple twist. As to size, this depends on many different factors, which is why we need to know more about what you're doing.

[Brady]

I am building the "Conga" plan. I am a first time boat builder, but no stranger to tools and craftwork. My goal though, is to outfit and rig the boat in a fashion that is representative of late 17th century vessel. It doesn't have to be exact, or course, but I would like for it to be as similar as possible. I am planning on eliminating a good deal of the decking aft of the mast, and to use canvas sail, and hemp rope, iron fittings, etc. The fittings and the sails I can handle myself, but I don't really know what size blocks or rope that I would need to use, and it doesn't seem to be listed on the plans (question #1.)

Here is a link to the plans:

http://www.polysail.com/conga.htm

For my second question, I need to go back to standing rigging. I will need to step the mast for transport, and I am wondering the best way to setup the standing rigging so that, when up, it reflects the period, but can still come down for travel.

Third; on frame #2, there is an indication for a brass or iron strip that passes through the decking. Am I correct in assuming that this is where the shrouds connect?

Fourth; I would like someone to tell me how much glass/epoxy/housepaint/whatever this boat really needs. Some sites indicate that one should soak the entire structure in epoxy; some say that you don't need epoxy, just glass the whole hull; some say just to glass the joints, some say just to paint the whole thing with exterior latex... I would appreciate any opinion on the subject as to *how* much of *what* is really needed... It is also important for me to keep weight down as much as possible.

Thanks for all the information for a new builder!
Brady

[Brady]

I was also wondering if someone that has seen the plans could estimate the weight of the "conga" for me. Not including mast, sails, or rigging.

Brady

[Brady]

I am building the "Conga" plan. I am a first time boat builder, but no stranger to tools and craftwork. My goal though, is to outfit and rig the boat in a fashion that is representative of late 17th century vessel. It doesn't have to be exact, or course, but I would like for it to be as similar as possible. I am planning on eliminating a good deal of the decking aft of the mast, and to use canvas sail, and hemp rope, iron fittings, etc. The fittings and the sails I can handle myself, but I don't really know what size blocks or rope that I would need to use, and it doesn't seem to be listed on the plans (question #1.)

Here is a link to the plans:

http://www.polysail.com/conga.htm

For my second question, I need to go back to standing rigging. I will need to step the mast for transport, and I am wondering the best way to setup the standing rigging so that, when up, it reflects the period, but can still come down for travel.

Third; on frame #2, there is an indication for a brass or iron strip that passes through the decking. Am I correct in assuming that this is where the shrouds connect?

Fourth; I would like someone to tell me how much glass/epoxy/housepaint/whatever this boat really needs. Some sites indicate that one should soak the entire structure in epoxy; some say that you don't need epoxy, just glass the whole hull; some say just to glass the joints, some say just to paint the whole thing with exterior latex... I would appreciate any opinion on the subject as to *how* much of *what* is really needed... It is also important for me to keep weight down as much as possible.

Thanks for all the information for a new builder!
Brady

[PAR]

You're kidding right?

There's nothing, absolutely nothing about the "Conga" design that suggests early 18th century, let alone 19th or early 20th century for that matter. This is a 1950's design and certainly looks every bit of it.

You are making several fundamental mistakes, which are typical of the novice builder. The biggest one is arbitrary changes to structure, design and other things that you don't fully understand.

Don't use canvas for the sails.
Don't use hemp for the standing rigging.
Don't use brass fasteners.
Don't arbitrarily leave off sections of decking.

Do stick to the plans except where known mistakes are (like skipping the use of brass for anything).
Do make reasonable and researched substitutions, such as modern double braid polyester line for the running rigging, Dacron or poly tarp sails and stainless wire for the rig.

The hull will be in the 400 pound range, before you install the 100 pound centerboard, maybe more depending on wood density. Of course this is ridiculously heavy by modern standards (I have designs that size and configuration a lot less then half that weight), but this is what you get, when you use 60 - 70 year old, free for the asking plans (you generally get what you pay for).

There are literally thousands of boats in that size available, most fairly cheap ($50 or less) and a high percentage for less then $100.

It sounds like you want a character boat, "Conga" isn't this, it's a classic 50's era performance dinghy. There are very few sources for small 18th century boats. Chapelle's "American Small Sailing Craft" would be the first place to look. Of course you will not get a full sets of plans from this book, but you will get an idea of what the 18th century offered (nothing was light). Boat types such as wherry, pinnace, whaleboat, dory and the bateau will pop up as the small craft options of the day. The bateau and scow will be the ones most closely associated with what you're looking for. Most were lug rigs of some sort with an occasional gaff tossed in to make things interesting. They will not have centerboards. This feature didn't come back into use until the early 19th century.

Of course the skiffs and sharpies will be closer to what you have in "Conga", but these didn't really develop up until the early and mid 19th century, 100 hundred years after your target era of the early 18th century

For what it's worth, these antique boats sail like crap, are difficult to set up, need constant attention and adjustment. Unless you're a professional colonial era reinactor, then you should avoid these boats like bad fruit, especially if you're a novice builder and sailor.

[alan white]

It looks a lot like a Snipe, though a lot of boats are similar. Note: I just changed my gaffer from deadeyes and lanyards to bronze turnbuckles. Enough of those things.
Anyway, this reminds me of the old Ford Country Squires. The ones with "wood" sides. Not really woody wagons.

[souljour2000]

you can still make it into a "character boat"...just add a bowsprit...a small jib sail to go with the bowsprit...maybe homemade sails....it might look more like this then...(see pic below)copy you can find out how to make them online...check out Mystic Seaport Museum maybe..or Port Townshend Washington..they make lots of traditional and what could be called"character" boats there...there's tons of stuff online you can copy to make her more 18th-century-looking... will take a little research though...much easier than what you have already accomplished...PAR is right...this design is from the 1950's ...it'll be slow..and heavy...

black nylon should work....could be used to substitute for tarred manila.....but remember...have fun with her...even if it isn't the design plan from Captain Bligh's dinghy....you have already accomplished something and learned much...even if you don't know it yet...good luck..

[Brady]

Thanks SJ2000 for your encouragement!
Perhaps you could point me in the direction of some plans that might be a little lighter, then. I'm not worried about speed, I am NOT looking for a racing boat, but lighter is better. Obviously I'm not looking for 18 century plans, but something that I could give a "traditional" feel to. It can be an open hull, with no decking or anything... I was going to take alot of the decking off of the Conga...I didn't realize that it would cause big problems. I'm really looking for something fun to build that a friend can teach me to sail on. Let me know if you have any thoughts... and thanks again!

Also, maybe we could turn this into a learning situation, and someone could tell me *why* one couldn't skip some of the decking, and why the brass is no good, etc...

Brady

[TeddyDiver]

Is this a bit what you thinking? http://www.boat-links.com/PT/PT2003/OregonLap-1.jpg

[PAR]

There are lots of designs to choose from, though you'll do better if you start with something like the Glen-L 11, 12 or 13. These are all very similar to what you've selected in "Conga", but use more modem methods.



I think a better choice would be the Goat Island Skiff (tell Mik, PAR sent you) as it's very easy to build and has an old school look to it, without the fuss.



You don't change plans as a rule because you don't understand the engineering behind it. Would you remove walls from the outside of your house? The biggest mistake novices make is making these types of changes thinking "what harm could it do".

Brass is a very weak metal. It's only good to hold up a picture frame on a boat, little else. Some folks use the term incorrectly, when they actually intend bronze. Though they both are alloys of copper, they are dramatically different it strength and durability in the marine environment.

So, as a rule you shouldn't change the plans unless you are playing with "gingerbread" type elements. This doesn't mean you can't change plans, but it does mean you need a bit of experience and understanding in this regard.

[gonzo]

The British Navy had a standard for their boats that was based on a stick. It had marks for each measurment. If you used three lengths you used three beams. They are rather burdensome, but definetely in "old boat character" category.

[Landlubber]

I give up........

[Brady]

give up on what?

B