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  #76  
Old 08-31-2016, 08:59 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Quant 23 Foiling Scow Keelboat

New picture of the production boat foiling with three crew:

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  #77  
Old 09-01-2016, 09:54 AM
projetdared projetdared is offline
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IT looks more and more to the monitor. Specialy with the guy sitting in the cockpit.
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  #78  
Old 09-01-2016, 01:39 PM
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More about Gordon Baker here(thanks to Hoyt) :
http://www.foils.org/baker.htm
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  #79  
Old 09-02-2016, 11:22 AM
Skyak Skyak is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
More about Gordon Baker here(thanks to Hoyt) :
http://www.foils.org/baker.htm
Quite an amazing guy. It is hard to believe the speeds they hit back then -with wood cotton and steel for materials! I was also amazed to read that the foils were "computer" controlled. I can't imagine any way that could be digital so there must be a reasonably simple analog computer able to handle the task. And all it's inputs are forces! Analog 'computers' all have mechanical equivalents.
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  #80  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:03 PM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyak View Post
Quite an amazing guy. It is hard to believe the speeds they hit back then -with wood cotton and steel for materials! I was also amazed to read that the foils were "computer" controlled. I can't imagine any way that could be digital so there must be a reasonably simple analog computer able to handle the task. And all it's inputs are forces! Analog 'computers' all have mechanical equivalents.
I second your amazement & would also like to know more about his "computer."

Some hints are given in a paper written by him, available at :

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b672020;view=1up;seq=251

I've excerpted one paragraph below (Click to enlarge).

Since this research was sponsored by the U.S. Navy, it's possible that some more diligent Googling might turn up more details.
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  #81  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:44 PM
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No mention of weight unless I just missed it?! Doug, have you found any info on Monitors weight?
UPDATE-I found this on foils.org:
Somewhere in my design notes I have written down Baker's foil chord lengths. I seem to recall Baker told me that MONITOR weighed 800 pounds, which surprised me how light it was. -- David A. Keiper
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  #82  
Old 09-02-2016, 02:53 PM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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1100 lbs. without crew, according to the information on page 30 of the following history of Baker's company: http://evansvillehistory.net/files/bakermanuf2.pdf
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  #83  
Old 09-02-2016, 03:08 PM
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Wow-that history is so cool. I wouldn't have thought to look up the history of the plant! Way to go, Doug!
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  #84  
Old 09-02-2016, 04:02 PM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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Sorry about the problem with the link in Post #80. Try this instead:

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...ew=1up;seq=251
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  #85  
Old 09-02-2016, 04:46 PM
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Wasn't a problem-I just copied it and pasted in the browser and it came up. Couldn't get it to work as a link though-I've never run into that before-what did you do?
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  #86  
Old 09-02-2016, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by projetdared View Post
IT looks more and more to the monitor. Specialy with the guy sitting in the cockpit.
WOW, I haven't seen that photo in YEARS !!
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  #87  
Old 09-02-2016, 06:01 PM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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Baker has several patents (or patent applications) concerning hydrofoil boats. This one seems to be the one most specifically about the Monitor, and includes a lot of the mechanical details:


https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US2856879.pdf
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  #88  
Old 09-02-2016, 06:05 PM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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Wasn't a problem-I just copied it and pasted in the browser and it came up. Couldn't get it work as a link though-I've never run into that before-what did you do?
I simply copied & pasted the link & then underlined it, the same way that I thought I had always done it.

Since then, I've been using the "Insert Link" icon above the text.
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  #89  
Old 09-03-2016, 09:32 AM
Skyak Skyak is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Halsey View Post
Baker has several patents (or patent applications) concerning hydrofoil boats. This one seems to be the one most specifically about the Monitor, and includes a lot of the mechanical details:


https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=p.../US2856879.pdf
This patent document does a pretty good job of detailing the flight control "computer". All the stays and even the main sheet forces are applied to a space frame that is linked to the hydrofoils angle of attack. It appears to be nothing more than an elaborate spring and damper, but there is one add I still don't understand -it looks like a propeller on a drum (don't know what's inside) on a four bar mechanism. I want to know if wind power is being used for 'active control' or if the entire Monitor flight system is just force/deflection. Clearly the steady state can be worked out to force deflection, but I wonder about dynamic responses or running into nonlinear responses.
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  #90  
Old 09-03-2016, 09:48 AM
Doug Halsey Doug Halsey is offline
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Originally Posted by Skyak View Post
..., but there is one add I still don't understand -it looks like a propeller on a drum (don't know what's inside) on a four bar mechanism. I want to know if wind power is being used for 'active control' or if the entire Monitor flight system is just force/deflection. Clearly the steady state can be worked out to force deflection, but I wonder about dynamic responses or running into nonlinear responses.
Are you referring to the last figure (Fig.14, Sheet 10)?

If so, the text says " Fig. 14 is a fragmentary schematic view illustrating the manner of incorporating the incidence adjustment in a boat driven by an air propeller." So, it doesn't apply to Monitor itself.

I'm not a mechanical expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm pretty sure that the system is just force/deflection.
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