Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[quartermaster]

Well, actually it was an acident that I bought FUN. I was looking for a trailer for my Spidsgatter, and FUN was on the trailer. I thought I'd buy them and sell the boat. But as things go, I started to like the looks of the boat, and I thought, well, I'll just do a little repair before I sell it. You know, to make it more valuble. I'm sure you guys know how the story goes from here. Five years later, and a lot of out of pocket cash, sleepless nights ect. I was way in over my head, but too dumb to know it at the time. Looking back, it was worth it. I met a lot of great people who gave of they're time and knowlege, and it made me a better yahtsman in the bargain. The boat was broken up, with a lot of hasty repairs, I put this down to the lack of a keel and an inadequate rudder, rightly or wrongly. I did try to get Laurie involved, but he was about to retire, and this project probably didn't apeal to him. I have been very involved in Bretts refit of Black Fun, and we have been emailing through his whole process. He had modest sucess with his project, but was dissapointed in not getting a podium result. The one thing I have learned, is that these boats are fairly high strung, and there is a process of tweaking that leads to better performance, whatever path you take. The rudder that I am using is a stock Melges 24 rudder, which is too thin and the chord too short, I don't get enough lift at the slow speeds it operates at upwind, and when it heels past 20 deg. it wants to round up. I built a thicker section and a bigger chord rudder, which solved this deficency, but I didn't make it strong enough. I'm useing the same design and making it out of solid carbon with a vacum system and an oven. My techniques have gotten better with time. It's all a process, and I'm learning a lot.
Quartermaster

[sean9c]

Originally Posted by quartermaster

Well, actually it was an acident that I bought FUN. I was looking for a trailer for my Spidsgatter, and FUN was on the trailer. I thought I'd buy them and sell the boat. But as things go, I started to like the looks of the boat, and I thought, well, I'll just do a little repair before I sell it. You know, to make it more valuble. I'm sure you guys know how the story goes from here. Five years later, and a lot of out of pocket cash, sleepless nights ect. I was way in over my head, but too dumb to know it at the time. Looking back, it was worth it. I met a lot of great people who gave of they're time and knowlege, and it made me a better yahtsman in the bargain. The boat was broken up, with a lot of hasty repairs, I put this down to the lack of a keel and an inadequate rudder, rightly or wrongly. I did try to get Laurie involved, but he was about to retire, and this project probably didn't apeal to him. I have been very involved in Bretts refit of Black Fun, and we have been emailing through his whole process. He had modest sucess with his project, but was dissapointed in not getting a podium result. The one thing I have learned, is that these boats are fairly high strung, and there is a process of tweaking that leads to better performance, whatever path you take. The rudder that I am using is a stock Melges 24 rudder, which is too thin and the chord too short, I don't get enough lift at the slow speeds it operates at upwind, and when it heels past 20 deg. it wants to round up. I built a thicker section and a bigger chord rudder, which solved this deficency, but I didn't make it strong enough. I'm useing the same design and making it out of solid carbon with a vacum system and an oven. My techniques have gotten better with time. It's all a process, and I'm learning a lot.
Quartermaster

I'm thinking you'll likely find the boat less high strung with a lower aspect ratio rudder. High aspect is all good and everything when you're going fast but pretty numb when going slow. The other thing, as you probably know, is that 20 degrees is a lot of heel. You might try sailing it flatter.
Cool boat, great job in saving it, I bet you get more than your share of attention when your out sailing.

[CRM]

Fun refit . Grand Marina , Alameda, Ca.

[CRM]

North end of estuary Oakland side. At the old NAS break water, SF city front, & Bay Bridge in the background.

[quartermaster]

I would like to sail it flat,but when the wind is up, which is all summer long it's very hard to do. The boat has very little form stability, and even with 1450 lbs. in the bulb and flat cut sails, it still heels a lot. I did have one season with the larger rudder, and could hold a lane in 20 + knots of breeze, so I know that it helps a lot. The canoe body shape doesn't help either, as it goes over it wants to round up due to that shape, much like turning a canoe by healing it. I also hung the rudder more verticle than I did at first, which keeps more of it imersed for longer. Oh, and I added a little plate, one inch wide, six inces below the waterline to help keep it from sucking water down the side. Of course all this could have been avoided if I had kept the rudder inboard and had the tiller sweep the cockpit.

[Ramona]

Goddard quarter tonner in Sydney Harbour is on eBay, starting price is 99 cents and no bids. I have had dealings with this broker and he is a nice bloke. Some one should jump in and buy this so I don't do something stupid!

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/150765854...84.m1423.l2649

[Gary Baigent]

Here is original Fun.

[CRM]

First ; a friend from Seattle working temporly in Alameda posted, he has checked out 'FUN', and found it not wanting, impressed by the refit. So, a well done to Quartermaster of California.
Next; performance - then and now. The diference of 'design' is so clear in the above snap. FUN is sailing flat, faster and to weather of the business end of a heeling but speedy, expencively built design.

These small boats are so fun.to sail.

[rapscallion]

Speaking of old IOR boats, does anyone know anything about "Terror?" I'm referring to the boat equipped with Dual bilge boards that was supposedly so fast it was banned from racing. If that design was so successful, why haven't we seen more designs like her since?

[michael pierzga]

Hmm...Terror ???? I remember HAWKEYE and Terrorist. Today they would be considered heavy for length.

[quartermaster]

CRM,
Thanks, I did do my homework and I did the best I could, with a lot of help from Arne Johnson and his son, Yoachim and others. They changed my PHRF rating from 189 to 156 with a downwind rating of 117. Pointing, and stability are my big issues, some due to the rudder, and some due to the Melges rig. When you have a rig that simple, you do give up some shaping, and mostly the forestay tension. I'm working on solutions to these problems.Any advice would be welcome.
Quartermaster

[sean9c]

Originally Posted by rapscallion

Speaking of old IOR boats, does anyone know anything about "Terror?" I'm referring to the boat equipped with Dual bilge boards that was supposedly so fast it was banned from racing. If that design was so successful, why haven't we seen more designs like her since?

I don't think they were banned. They exploited a loophole in the rule,the loophole was closed. Not competitive any more. That's what you get for exploiting loopholes

[sean9c]

Originally Posted by quartermaster

CRM,
Thanks, I did do my homework and I did the best I could, with a lot of help from Arne Johnson and his son, Yoachim and others. They changed my PHRF rating from 189 to 156 with a downwind rating of 117. Pointing, and stability are my big issues, some due to the rudder, and some due to the Melges rig. When you have a rig that simple, you do give up some shaping, and mostly the forestay tension. I'm working on solutions to these problems.Any advice would be welcome.
Quartermaster

A 156 sounds way to fast, a 117 crazy. Did they change your rating based on race results? I sailed QT's and owned an M242 that rated 156 the 242 was way faster than a QT.
How does your current sail area compare to the original? Does the boat weigh about what it did? M24 rig? Full size? Do you use a genoa or just a jib?
My guess is that Laurie probably had the SA about right.
I know it's not the trend but I think genoas work pretty good. If it's light wind you use the genoa, if it's windy, the jib. If you redesign to rig to eliminate the genoa but keep the same SA about all you can do is go up. Now you have the right SA for light wind but what happens when it's windy. You're doing all sorts of things trying to dump power.
Also running backstays work good. They separate headstay tension from everything else. Without RB's the only way to get headstay tension is from the swept spreaders, so your upper/lower shrouds, but the angles are so flat that even with a ton of shroud tension you don't get much change. What's left is the backstay, vang and mainsheet. Unless the topmast is really stiff much backstay just makes the mainsail too flat. Your left with mainsheet/vang. The mainsheet works great at keeping the headstay tight as long as you don't have to release it.
If you haven't tried it already try keeping the mainsheet tight and just let the traveller down. Also, Don Martin used to tell new M242 sailors if the boat is heeling too much just push the stick away from you.

[Richard 4073]

Originally Posted by rapscallion

Speaking of old IOR boats, does anyone know anything about "Terror?" I'm referring to the boat equipped with Dual bilge boards that was supposedly so fast it was banned from racing. If that design was so successful, why haven't we seen more designs like her since?

I think its Terrorist you're referring to (Bruce King design) - she lined up for the 1974 One Ton Cup, with twin asymmetric centreboards, angled 12o to the centreline, with all ballast internal (and a fair bit of that too, she was short, fat and heavy). Won the first race by nearly five minutes, but then broke her mast in the next. The introduction of a moveable appendage factor in the next round of changes hit hard and pushed her well out of the One Ton class. An interesting concept though, and I guess you could say there is some remnant of the concept on the Volvo boats with asymetric centreboards providing lift while the keel is canted.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Richard 4073

I think its Terrorist you're referring to (Bruce King design) - .

For anyone interested, Terrorist and Hawkeye are discussed earlier in this thread, with photos of both boats. You'll just have to do a search of the thread to find the info.