Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CT 249

I think I can put designers to most of those tomorrow.

Thanks. For the QTs I think I have things in hand until '80, then it is very hit and miss for the rest, maybe only half at this point. Actually, "the Years in the French Wilderness" is something I know little about.

Originally Posted by CT 249

Paul, the Kaufman and Ganbare took the first 2 spots, ahead of the centreboarders and Farrs.

Makes sense somewhat, those two boats would have more power and less wetted area. All the production Farr boats here in SoCal (727, 914, 1104) added 4 to 6 feet on the rigs after their IOR days were done. Made them much nicer boats for racing in our conditions.

Originally Posted by CT 249

S Jack's mods included putting on a "puller" prop as well, after she won the trails. In contrast to her mods when she was winning, Red Lion's navigator joked that when she started winning he even kept on using the same pencil for chartwork because they were too scared to touch anything!

Searching the 'net for info about those days I found reference to an interesting book: INCHBOLD, JOHN The Yacht With No Name. The story of B 195, Australia's Leading Contender for the 1977 One Ton cup. I ordered a copy and it shipped airmail from Melbourne yesterday. I hope it arrives before I leave for China next week.

Originally Posted by CT 249

My book's on the dinghy side throughout history, but it's been sitting 98% complete for a couple of years, ever since I started running a class association as well as work, 4 kids, an ancient half tonner, 5 dinghies and 17 windsurfers.

When it is done how can we obtain a copy? I have a very cool book from about 10 years ago on the I14 development. I enjoy reading these types of histories.

Originally Posted by CT 249

I've seen Comte de Flandre's specs in Seahorse, I think; I don't think she reached 8.5m, but I may be wrong. My recollection from articles (and a phone call to the guy who won a worlds in her) was that her secret was her clean, wide Briand stern. He was a great designer IMHO, with a distinct style. Pity we don't get much of that in these box rule days.

Of course my info on the length of CdF are from memories of reading articles years ago. I recall her being very long, and Briand saying length was critical, sail area was too expensive (something about the length he could add if he removed the sail area "the size of your shirt".

Briand did have nice looking style. I think his designs may have held the QT, HT, and OT Cups at the same time (Edit: Not Quite. HTC in '83, QTC and OTC in '84). One thing I didn't like was the lack of camber to his decks. This kept the weight very low, but also made the decks less stiff. The J/N Diva type OT that I used to sail on at least had a bit of camber.

Originally Posted by CT 249

Aust and NZ had some bloody quick little boats too in that era. The '71/72 era trailable RL24 rates (depending on version) as fast or quicker than a mid '70s/late '70s quarter. In the '60s we had the Highlander 25, basically a tempest with a cabin and an extra trap. But here, most people with boats over 20' wanted to cruise or to race offshore.

The Moore 24 was faster than the Half Tonners of the mid 70s, nearer the pace of a production 3/4 tonner of the time. The SC27 did rate 3/4 ton, and in very light air could win at that rating against production boats. Of course downhill in a breeze they could both sail well above their ratings. Ditto the Olson 30 at Two Ton (32.0 IOR).

The Highlander sounds a bit like the Wylie Wabbit. Using the traps the Wabbit sails about equal with a mid '70s 3/4 tonner.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Ramona

This Peterson half tonner, "half Measure" is for sale in Queensland for $22.000. That's got to be a good buy surely. Apparently a fast boat in light airs and plenty of history. Nice hull shape.

That boat should be similar in shape to the Half Ton Cup winners Northstar and Foxy Lady. Great upwind, a bit of a handful when pressed hard downwind.

Similar boats here in the USA change hands for less than US$10K.

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Holland also knew John Spencer (Atkinson was a builder in Browns Bay where Spencer lived)

Accoring to Nel Bethwaite, who also knew the area back in the 50s, there were a couple of local kids who used to come and sweep out Spences' shed then draw boats in the sand with him - Ron Holland and Mark Bethwaite...

[Gary Baigent]

Here is an interesting little piece relating to the famed Flap Martinengo and his equally famous Young designed NZ37 Namu: Martinengo was very wily and very weight conscious and once expressed great displeasure to the heft of Namu’s hatch, which had been built by young Ron Holland (an apprentice boat builder before he later got into yacht designing) and in those days Holland could do nothing but suffer the humorous but unforgettable sniping of Martinengo’s slings and barbs. Namu’s interior, because of the Martinengo’s weight fixation, was completely bare, except for squabs, and after races in which Martinengo invariably won, he would go from boat to boat with a kettle asking for water – but this was refused in mock but sometimes genuine anger.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CT 249

I think I can put designers to most of those tomorrow.

Here's a spreadsheet I put together for the IOR winners of the 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, 1 Ton, and 2 Ton Cups.

Any info that anyone can provide to flesh this out would be appreciated.

[CT 249]

1986 1 ton cup would have been the one won by the X 1 ton Andelsbanken in the Med.

I think 87 OTC was sailed at Kiel.

76 Two ton cup went to Williwaw - also Kiel?

72 1TC sailed at Sydney, went to Wai Aniwa, heavy Carter, skipper Chris Bouzaid.

More later

[Gary Baigent]

One Ton
1977 Red Lion was skippered by Stu Brentnall
1979 Pendragon by John McClauren (sp)
1/4 Ton
1975 45 South skippered by Roy Dickson/Graeme Woodroffe
1978/79 Bullit skippered by Jacques Faouroux
1/2 Ton
1976 Gunboat Rangiriri skippered by Peter Walker
1979 Wave rider by Tony Bouzaid/Helmer Petersen
3/4 Ton
1977 Joe Louis by Marc Pajot

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CT 249

1986 1 ton cup would have been the one won by the X 1 ton Andelsbanken in the Med.

I think 87 OTC was sailed at Kiel.

76 Two ton cup went to Williwaw - also Kiel?

72 1TC sailed at Sydney, went to Wai Aniwa, heavy Carter, skipper Chris Bouzaid.

More later

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

One Ton
1977 Red Lion was skippered by Stu Brentnall
1979 Pendragon by John McClauren (sp)
1/4 Ton
1975 45 South skippered by Roy Dickson/Graeme Woodroffe
1978/79 Bullit skippered by Jacques Faouroux
1/2 Ton
1976 Gunboat Rangiriri skippered by Peter Walker
1979 Wave rider by Tony Bouzaid/Helmer Petersen
3/4 Ton
1977 Joe Louis by Marc Pajot

Thanks Guys. I'l update the file. Keep it coming as you find more info.

I suspect the 3/4 Ton Cup wasn't held every year, due to lack of interest. I could be wrong. Didn't a boat named Finnfire win it one year?

Ditto the Two Ton event, re: not being held every year.

[Paul B]

Here is the updated file.

The items in RED are guesses. The other items seem to be right.

Only need one more year in the QT and OT lists. HT is complete. Need 2 more 2T, but many more 3/4T.

[southern aussie]

Reading this topic and seeing the spreed sheet jogged my memory about the 1977 Aust titles and the World titles in Sydney about 2 weeks later. l came up as the support crew for a Peterson design called Cassablanca out of Melbourne. l was about 19 then so excuse the memory loss on much of the detail. l had a great time while the boys were out sailing i was chasing skirt lol but thats and other story. l ended up working the foredeck on Peter Coles own boat. The Cole and Peterson boats were so off the mark against the likes of Farr and Whiting it was like we were in second division.They looked like over size skiffs and left us on all angles of sailing.

[lazeyjack]

refesh my old memory, One tonne half, quater?
I remember Wai Aniwa best cos she was alumimium which is my speciality, bouzaid, one tonne world champ Kiel?

[CT 249]

Bouzaid, yes, alloy - I think perhaps steel (I have the old mags somewhere although I was only 8 years old). one ton, yes, Kiel no.

She won off Sydney after Ydra (a much lighter Carter0 had retired from the lone race with mast trouble.

threequarter ton was held every year AFAIK.

1st winner- Swmpfire, Mull ' 75?
2nd - Solent Saracaen, peterson, UK, ?
3rd- Finnfire,
4th winner. '77???? - Jou Lous (Farr, Pajot) from Dakkaer (fr)
'78- Pendragon.
79- Maligawa??? (Faroux???)
80- start of the long run of Dehler Db or X yachts winners?
Late 80s - Farr takes some more wins (Lone, etc).

Still haven't had a chance to go through the material.

Ohhh, there's a coincidence - that reminds me, Elvind Still designed Finnfire.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CT 249

threequarter ton was held every year AFAIK.

1st winner- Swmpfire, Mull ' 75?
2nd - Solent Saracaen, peterson, UK, ?
3rd- Finnfire,
4th winner. '77???? - Jou Lous (Farr, Pajot) from Dakkaer (fr)
'78- Pendragon.
79- Maligawa??? (Faroux???)
80- start of the long run of Dehler Db or X yachts winners?
Late 80s - Farr takes some more wins (Lone, etc).

Still haven't had a chance to go through the material.

Ohhh, there's a coincidence - that reminds me, Elvind Still designed Finnfire.

Yes, I have Still and Finnfire as the '76 winner. I have a notation that '79 was the Norlin Stratus. Norlin in '79? Seems odd. I have not confirmed this.

I also have seen a mention that X yachts won 5 times in the 3/4s, but I have only confirmed 3. I thought dBs won more than once, but I only have Positron so far.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by southern aussie

Reading this topic and seeing the spreed sheet jogged my memory about the 1977 Aust titles and the World titles in Sydney about 2 weeks later. l came up as the support crew for a Peterson design called Cassablanca out of Melbourne. l was about 19 then so excuse the memory loss on much of the detail. l had a great time while the boys were out sailing i was chasing skirt lol but thats and other story. l ended up working the foredeck on Peter Coles own boat. The Cole and Peterson boats were so off the mark against the likes of Farr and Whiting it was like we were in second division.They looked like over size skiffs and left us on all angles of sailing.

You are talking half tonners here. The Peterson and Coles boats were probably designs from 3 or 4 years earlier, an eternity in the early days of the IOR.

The Petersons were probably more than a foot shorter than the new boats, much heavier, and the new boats had lifting keels.

Those Farr lift keelers were really incredible in the breeze. Perfect execution for a boat for the time and place under the IOR. Very nice looking boats as well.

[Gary Baigent]

Just checked out Bullit's length - the boat was easily the longest quarter tonner at Panmure in 1980 - 8.50 metres.