Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[Paul Kotzebue]

This is great stuff. I worked for Dick Carter, Bruce King, and Gary Mull in the 1970's. I also worked at Nelson/Marek in the 1980's. I've faired up a few lines plans for IOR boats and I can say the lines of Newspaper Taxi is the most ruthless IOR shape I've ever seen. Way cool.

[booster]

Kotzebue!
I agree, but can you explain why the bow is lower than the stern? With a small fore-triangle, small spinnakers you do not need the high free-boards in the bow. The forward girth stations moves aft, imposing a smaller measured length L. How the girth stations in the bow is effected is not totally clear to me. By rising the the stern the measurment position of the measured beam moves upwards. As a result one have a seemingly narrower waterline and the real beam doesn't slow the boat that much. Regarding the rear girth stations one wants to maximize the difference beteewn the foreward and aft of these. To impose a low measured length L. In the case of the Taxi one gets a slight deficit. Perhaps other rating benefits is making up for this? In Gary B's book "The light Brigade" Laurie Davidson comments the deigns of Whiting. Someting like: "Whiting is lining the dots and gets a big concavity, but he still gets the volume." Very cool, I agree.
Regards,
Booster

[Gary Baigent]

Booster and Kotzebue, the bloke who would know much of the Paul Whiting IOR lightweight philosophy would be Murray Ross, who was his partner in crime when they really upset the IOR world - google his name and you will get his charter business, a catamaran Isis of his own design - he has a wealth of knowledge and information about those days, and more recent ones too.

[booster]

Thanks Gary B!
I will contact Murray Ross and see what happens. I will ask him about the prop that was installed in front of the keel of Smackwater Jack as well. There is a rating bonus, and according to your book "The light Brigade" Whiting tested every corner of IOR. I wonder if all these IOR-bypass-operations not got to much...
Regards,
Booster

[Paul Kotzebue]

Booster,

I'm sure the lines are drawn in measurement trim, which is why the boat is bow down. Since all the depth measurements are forward, you want to get the bow down for the in the water measurements. Also, don't forget aboput the CGF, or Center of Gravity Factor. Bow down trim makes the boat more tippy for the inclining test, thereby decreasing the CGF. Once crew and gear are aboard, the boat will level out.

It's been a long time, but my recollection is it paid to squeeze the boat at the AGS. There is a big crease at AGS on Newspaper Taxi which is what you want to minimize rated L relative to performance. A few designers went with extreme pinched sterns which further reduced L but sacrificed performance. Note that a wide stern with crew weight way aft was a good way to get unrated stability.

[CRM]

Hoping to keep the comments flowing. Here are some snap of Chips on the hard at Marble Head, Mass. before the 1978 Worlds, and returning from a race. I recall reading Chips was back in the great lakes.

The Green Lt. air sail was used in very light conditions and I don't have a snap of it outside the full page shot in Seahorse magazine. I was watching the Dragon come alive with it's use with binoculars. In 1978 I did not have a camera w/ a long lens.

[CRM]

A Few more snaps of the Assembly coming in from a race. Sachem and other boats

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CRM

A Few more snaps of the Assembly coming in from a race. Sachem and other boats

What is Stampede? Was it part of the 3/4 Ton Worlds? Designer?

It has the look of the old Peterson Dida-type.

[Gary Baigent]

You collectors of IOR minutiae might find this slightly interesting: Paul Whiting's deck gear layout and costs for Magic Bus.

[booster]

Kotzebue, CRM, Paul B, Gary B et al
Thanks Kotzebue for your analysis of the Whiting Taxi. CRM, nice snaps again, lot of mast-rake on Assembly. Paul B., yes it looks like a Diva-version. Gary B, I will try to zoom on the Magic Bus drawing to see the details. The beam looks almost like a corner. Ross must keep the boat flat like a dinghy, to avoid the corner stopping the boat. Very cool design.
Regards,
Booster

[booster]

Paul B et al!
The boat I was referring to in my previous post is the Farr Design #185 which was designed for HRH Crown Prince Harald and named FRAM X. She won the One Ton Worlds in 1987. I can see a little more slope upwards of the stern than usual, but Paul B is probably correct. Thanks to Farr's office for the photo enclosed.
Regards,
Booster

[tullospaul]

was this Hawkeye sighting recent? if so, any idea who the present owner is? i'd read that the boat had been stolen & lost years ago. i'd be interested in contacting the owner if the boat was for sale.

[CRM]

As usual your deep insight has pegged it. A Peterson 1/2 Toner,I spotted her Years ago, at the big marina in Alameda, Ca. As we have been paroozing these wider stern IOR boats, though I would just put it into the mix. You can not say Peterson could not do a pleasant looking boat. It has some of the proportions of Sachem.

When I meet Davidson back in 1990.in PT. I was Living In my 1970's C&C 1/2 toner. He would visite Port Townsend in "High Cotton" a Bayliner 31 power boat. We were moored on the same dock. Hanger Flying with him, on the dock and not in a business setting, you got the distinct impression, a pleasant shaping of a boat was up most in his tool box. He laughed at all the potential performance lost in my boat's highly racked bow. However, he did liked the style of C&C's, ,but could easly do faster boats. I told him, I also had a little Peterson 1/4 ton boat. He said, he liked his work.

crm

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by CRM

As usual your deep insight has pegged it. A Peterson 1/2 Toner,I spotted her Years ago, at the big marina in Alameda, Ca. As we have been paroozing these wider stern IOR boats, though I would just put it into the mix. You can not say Peterson could not do a pleasant looking boat.

Looks to be a keelboat sistership to Peterson's daggerboard Oooh No, the fastest Half Tonner in North America in 1977 and 1978. She was the top scoring boat at the 1977 North Americans but lost out on a BS protest. She came back in 1978 and won the first 4 races of the NAs, then cruised in the long distance race to a 3rd place for the overall win. Of course that was pretty much the end of half tonners in North America, so I guess she was the fastest half tonner here ever.

Of course it was in the same "family" as the 40 foot Petersons Yena and Dida that dominated the '78 Sardnia Cup, and the Rogers 39 Eclipse that was top scoring boat at the '79 Admiral's Cup.

A very nice all around shape.

[Paul Kotzebue]

I remember sailing on a Mull 30 against Oooh No! in 1978. Oooh No! was a very fast boat for that time.