Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by booster

Is it Britton Chance Sr. who won the Olympics or Jr.? Regards,
Booster

That was Sr., father of the yacht designer, not the designer.

[Tanton]

From the 1992 America's cup.
I simply halved the Destroyer bow of the French, and the low overhang of every one else at the time.

[booster]

Thanks Paul B, regarding the Olympics winner Chance Sr.

Tanton, well, your expertise is now truly documented. What was it Paul B called it, in language you perhaps like: Nom de plume?

Regards,
Booster

[booster]

Tanton!
You are in good company among naval architects regarding chopping off the overhangs. A famous college of yours had the motto:
”Most boat for your money”
Meaning taking a big boat and cut the overhangs. A typical creation of his is shown below. About 3000 was built. Perhaps an early Doug Peterson?
Regards,
Booster

[phum]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Actually Bruce King's Terrorist has to be one the very first centre/daggerboard boats, albeit she had two asymmetrics, windward up/leeward down - and she frightened everyone present that year by her high pointing and speed - which when you look at the hull profile, is a little unusual, the boat was almost pot bellied. Terrorist would have won the OTC that year - (if and but) had she not lost her rig in the last race. Then because the twin foiled boat showed too much speed for its own good, was legislated out soon afterward. The other jpegs show the difference between Peterson and Berret, plus two dinghy types of the same era.

Rereading a very interesting topic. A bit off topic but has there been any use of this idea in more recent times?
Peter

[Gary Baigent]

I only know of Britton Chance's Fous du Vous (You're Crazy) an SORC boat - and that was back in the late 1970's. Paul B might know of more.
I was going to put two lifting asymmetrical daggers in the 5.5 m Cox's Bay Skimmer - but changed my mind, too awkward on a small boat - and settled for one conventional. It has two free standing wing masts though.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by phum

Rereading a very interesting topic. A bit off topic but has there been any use of this idea in more recent times?
Peter

At the same time King did Terrorist in the One Ton Class he also did a Two Tonner (Agressive?) and a 50 footer (Hawkeye). All shared the same general deep body shape, masthead rig, and outboard rudder. All were fast for their rating, until the rule changed. Then their ratings were so high they were not competitive at all. It took about a year to kill them.

The Hood One Ton centerboarder Robin shared the same deep belly shape. All these boats relied on internal ballast for stability so getting it as deep as possible helped stability. Even years later with the old age allowance Robin won her class in the SORC.

Here in SoCal there was another bilgeboarder in 1970s. It was 28 feet long, not IOR shaped, flush decked, light for the day, masthead rig, wood hull, and was called Wide Load after the signs you had to hang on the back of ovewide trailers on the highways. There is a rumour it did more than 25 knots down the backside of Catalina Island during a Whitney Series race one year. I don't believe that, but I'll bet it touched 20 on more than one occassion. Very interesting thing at the time, didn't race much (there was no real class for it to excel in), and was sold on to someone in Marina del Rey in the 80s, then it disappeared.

Currently there are many boats sailing with a similar appendage configuration to the assymetric boards of the King boats. All the VOR 70s have dual, toed in boards. Some Maxis like ICAP Leopard (First to Finish this week in the Fastnet) have them. The Open 60s use them, as does the production Farr 11m (photo from Farr Design website attached, with boards up at the dock). All of these use an external ballast bulb instead of the deep belly hull to get the ballast low.

[phum]

I was thinking along the lines of internal ballasted boats with unballasted or lightly ballasted fins.
The application I was thinking of was in small lift keel yachts (Trailer Sailers ?)to get rid of the space robbing fincase and effort in lifting the heavily ballasted fin.
Am waiting patiently (maybe no so patiently) for photos an reports of the Cox Creek Skimmer doing its thing.
Peter

[Gary Baigent]

You'll have to wait a little longer Phum - the owner is slowly putting a cradle/trailer together - but should be sailing in the next couple of weeks. Remember the CBSkimmer doesn't have twin lifting asymmetrics and is just a fast cruising type of daysailor with a central daggerboard. I agree, a 7.5 metre or thereabouts lightweight with lifting bilge boards and water ballast (the skimmer does have waterballast) would be a very interesting boat. Paul B suggested the latest Farr 11 metre as an example but these type boats, IMOCRC and V70's and the like, have canting keels. My thoughts, probably ridiculed by many experts, is that there is a cross over point where lightly ballasted, wide hulled skimming types with comparatively less sail area than conventional keelers (but still carrying a high sail area to displacement figure, will perform very well. Big dinghies really.

[booster]

Phum&Gary B!
The King designed two-tonner Popeye was unbeatable upwind, but hard downwind; it got its own will. It had assymetrical daggerboards. Bu had to change to a keel after the rule-changes. After that it got no will at all. The poor boat is now resting in peace on a shipyard since 20 years. The Swedes had planned to make a concept development. Mercury pumped to the windward daggerboard. An under-cover central mercury-tank should govern the performance. Early tests revealed distrurbing sounds when pumping the mercury, zwocka, zwocka, bubblezwocka. Thus, the whole thing ended among the other dead fishes.
Regards,
Booster

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by booster

Phum&Gary B!
The King designed two-tonner Popeye was unbeatable upwind, but hard downwind; it got its own will. It had assymetrical daggerboards.

The Two Tonner Aggressive (King Bilgeboarder) did win the Two Ton North Americans in 1975 before the rule changed, so acceptable performance I guess.

Originally Posted by booster

The Swedes had planned to make a concept development. Mercury pumped to the windward daggerboard. An under-cover central mercury-tank should govern the performance. Early tests revealed distrurbing sounds when pumping the mercury, zwocka, zwocka, bubblezwocka. Thus, the whole thing ended among the other dead fishes.
Regards,
Booster

I think you are having fun with us now. This would not have been allowed for a number of reasons.


I should be in San Diego in the next few weeks. While I'm there I'll check to see if Terrorist is still sitting where I last saw her about 15 years ago.

[Gary Baigent]

Couple of shots of Cox's Bay Skimmer, named Dreadnought - soon to be launched.

[phum]

We are waiting.

[booster]

Well,
I admit the "bubblezwocka" was a bit overkill. Gary B and phum, let's hope the black sledge-rocket leaves Kings creation "Terrorist" behind. Moreover, let's hope resurrect King design "Agressive popeyed Terrorist".
Regards,
Booster

[CRM]

I started following these posted notes when focused on the old quarter toner, "magic bus", and now its on to B. King's bilge boarders. Very interesting stuff. I know a little about this topic. I'm an old IOR dog. Loved those boats. Starting a carrear as a boat builder I moved into the Seattle area in 1972 and just out of school in Fresno,Ca. From this prosprctive and years of work in the field I've enjoyed reading these post. I HAVE BEEN DUMB FOUNDED at the depth of knowledge and the numerous good sea stories. A damn great read.

I Worked the plug and prototype shop at Bayliner from 73 to 82. The job supported my addiction to sailboat's and racing. I got a San Rafael, Poseidon Marine - Peterson 25 - 1/4 tonner as a kit in 72, and put it together. My old haunts were in the Bay area. Alameda, Berkeley, and Santa Cruz. So, often back down to the bay area, I ran across The 1/4 toner Magic at a brokerage just east of the marina green in the city. I took a few pictures, however good shots and lines DWN's are now posted here and any more wouldn't be needed. However, I would like to see a few shots of the bus now.

Shifting back to topic "B"; B. Kings bilge board boats. All were, Very impressive beast. I saw the 50 footer "Hawk-eye" in a Big Boat series down in the city. Truly something to watch just off the city front and between the Gate and Alcatraz. It just riped it up. With the exception of being aboard an other boat in the fleet, that city front is a great place to see a boat race, dear I say the best.

Every one is aware of the many barn fine's in the news these past few years. Well along this line a Bruce King 38 foot, board boat restest near by. I have a shop in a small, boat yard located in the up town area,of Port Townsend, Wa. which has it's own stash of old timers, but the day I moved in, I noticed an old, long in the tooth, IOR bilge boarder. Low in it's cradle the unmistakable large hull with ample tumble home, moss covered north, starboard side, sitting quietly. A couple of us had to move its stick from along my shop to extrack a boat ready to go backin. It was a heavy section, Double spreader, rod rigging, Sterns twin fore stay job. I've take a number pictures and well post when I get handel on the sites software, are ask not to!

craig montague.