Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[waikikin]

Originally Posted by Paul B

If that boat was in the UK it would probably be snapped up to contend in the 1/4 ton racing there.

If it was here in the USA I think I know at least one person looking at it.

However, in either place the asking price for that clapped out old boat seems excessively high. I would think half that would be in order, and then only if it included a road worthy trailer.

Hi Paul, not having a go mate but thats a matter of perspective and demand, the seller will have a different view of coarse & remember the're only Aussie dollars, all the best from Jeff.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by waikikin

Hi Paul, not having a go mate but thats a matter of perspective and demand, the seller will have a different view of coarse & remember the're only Aussie dollars, all the best from Jeff.

Fair enough, although not long ago the Aussie dollar wasn't far off the US dollar.

The market here in the states is very soft for this type of boat. With the current economy things are going to get softer still. Locally I've seen things like Merit 25s, similar size, more modern, better interior, better sailing MORC boat sell for less than US$3K. Clapped out J24s can be found for US$2K.

The asking price of $19K Aussie is now more than $10K US. You can find Olson 30s for less money.

Old IOR boats are only interesting to a small number of people who have fond memories of that time. When you see how some of the old QTs in the UK have been restored to "better than new" condition it makes you hope that all of the significant old boats could be found and saved.

Not many old 24 Hours of LeMans winners are sitting, rotting, and being cut up. Sad to say, sailboats aren't looked at like auto racers are.

[steveo-nz]

What is the going rate in the UK (which seems to have the strongest market) for a mint condition 1/4 Tonner these days?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by steveo-nz

What is the going rate in the UK (which seems to have the strongest market) for a mint condition 1/4 Tonner these days?

Not sure what they are actually going for, but the current cup winner Tom Bombadil (Peterson 25) is for sale on the class website, asking 17, 500 GBP.

If you go to the Quarter Ton Class site and look at the photos you can see just how impressive the restorations on these old warhorses are. Simply stunning stuff, especially the Fiona Brown photos links (for 2006, 2007, and 2008 cups).

I am sure some of the owners have far more than these asking prices in their restorations.

[steveo-nz]

Thats a fair bit more that I expected.

Where can you find results of the 1/4 ton cup from the heydays......70's- late 80's?? I have looked online with out much joy.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by steveo-nz

Thats a fair bit more that I expected.

Where can you find results of the 1/4 ton cup from the heydays......70's- late 80's?? I have looked online with out much joy.

I have no idea if any boats actually change hands at those asking prices. Having recently restored a 1980 built Peterson 28 foot cold molded ULDB I can say it would take more than that price for me to break even, and my job wasn't anywhere near the class these guys are putting on these boats.


I can't find the results anywhere either. If you find them please post them. From memory, and I'm sure CT249 will be able to fill gaps:

1973 Ron Holland Eygthene (sp?)
1974 ?
1975 Farr 45 Degrees South
1976 Whiting Magic Bus
1977 Faroux (sp?) Bullit
1978 Yamaha 25 modified sailed by Gary Weisman and Roy Cundiff

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Paul B

I have no idea if any boats actually change hands at those asking prices. Having recently restored a 1980 built Peterson 28 foot cold molded ULDB I can say it would take more than that price for me to break even, and my job wasn't anywhere near the class these guys are putting on these boats.


I can't find the results anywhere either. If you find them please post them. From memory, and I'm sure CT249 will be able to fill gaps:

1973 Ron Holland Eygthene (sp?)
1974 ?
1975 Farr 45 Degrees South
1976 Whiting Magic Bus
1977 Faroux (sp?) Bullit
1978 Yamaha 25 modified sailed by Gary Weisman and Roy Cundiff

Maybe '74 was the Norlin Accent?

[Paul B]

The larger Half tonners were interesting as well, and the class is also being resurrected in Europe.

My best recollection of the Half ton Cup Winners:

1973 Norlin Scampi?
1974 Peterson Northstar (Roy Cundiff)
1975 Peterson Foxy Lady (Tom Stephenson Chaser 29)
1976 Holland Silver Shamrock (Harold Cudmore?)
1977 Farr Gunboat Rangirirri
1978 Davidson Wave rider
1979 Davidson Wave rider

In 1976 I started racing in bigger boats around Long Beach. Roy Cundiff and the Shadden Family had Northstar sailing out of LBYC, just dominating that size range. I would walk down the dock and pour over every detail of her for hours.

Years later I got to know Roy and regretted never having the nerve to ask him for a ride on Northstar. I saw Tom Shadden about 2 years ago and we spent a few minutes talking about what a magical boat she was.

Then a few docks over a Farr 727 arrived and I spent hours studying that one, even getting to sail aboard her. Sadly the QT Class never took off then, as the J24 became a huge class in the area.

[Paul B]

Should be something like:

1973 Carter Ydra (Peterson Ganbare missed a mark and finished 2nd)
1974 Peterson Gumboots
1975 Peterson Pied Piper
1976 ?
1977 Farr Red Lion
1978 Holland? Bremen?
1979 Davidson Pendragon (1978 3/4 Ton World Champ)

In the early 80s Pendragon was still racing in SoCal (actually it still is, as Violetta), a bit off the pace against newer boats but still in the top end of the IOR fleet. One breezy race I was on a newer N/M One Ton and on the long run Pendoggie came roaring up on us from far behind. They caught our stern wave and yo-yo'd back and forth with big surfing surges on our 2nd wave back. We were laughing because they didn't realize they were caught in our wave train. After a while they figured it out, heated up a boatlength and went by us like we were tied to a post. Serious speed downhill, even 5 years after she was launched.

[Gary Baigent]

Some Pendragon history:
BUT IT WAS NOT all over. Davidson was determined that his champion Three Quarter Tonner Pendragon could still excel, be made to rate, still be competitive and not become an obsolete design the IOR hoped the new penalties would achieve. Davidson gave much thought to audaciously turning the formerly full size 34 foot Three Quarter Ton Pendragon into a small One Ton Pendragon – which would normally be a metre longer. He made this step up by putting on a taller mast, increasing mainsail area and adding a bow sprit to handle larger headsails. More ballast was loaded inside and the daggerboard size was increased.
Purple Pendragon became a small, light, One Tonner with a large amount of sail yet still retained its lifting foil; the only board boat at Vancouver for the 1979 One Ton Cup series. Ron Holland’s latest three quarter rigged Indulgence arrived from the UK with a crack crew and an upwind reputation; pundits expected this yacht to take the Championship in the 12 boat fleet. But compared to Pendragon, Indulgence was slow off wind, a point of sail the Davidson design could not be touched and yet upwind Pendragon was still fast enough to stay with the longer, heavier yacht designs. Defending Champion Tilsag’s German crew were unhappy with the light winds of the area and even more annoyed that the New Zealand designs had not been banished from IOR competition. After prize giving, where Pendragon came out an easy, but unpopular winner, the crew returned to find a boot hole through the light plywood deck.
“To make Pendragon go up a class,” explained Davidson, “I went out onto a limb but it paid off. It was a unique situation but in hindsight, the boat could have performed even better if the daggerboard had been a thicker section. Although it was deep and of high aspect ratio, the thinness of the foil reduced Pendragon’s windward performance. But it did not matter for the board era was finished and there would be no more lifting foil development under IOR.”
McClaurin sold Pendragon to Zeke Dooghy who towed the dinghy/yacht across the USA to Newport – where the Americas Cup was being challenged. Mid-West police thought the strange purple yacht on a trailer was illegal traffic because Dooghy had no permit but he exonerated himself by saying he was “representing the United States and going to Newport to beat the Australians.” Nearby a couple of onlookers, peering up at Pendragon remarked, “It’s definitely not a boat; there’s a hole going right through the middle of it.”

[Paul B]

The details of that story are not all accurate.

The '78 3/4 Ton Cup was in British Columbia, not the '79 One Ton Cup. That regatta was on the East coast.

One story to come out of the One Ton Cup was Indulgence was so fast upwind they would be clear of the fleet. Then they would sail downwind until they found Pendragon. They would drop the kite, raise the headsail, and camp on Pendragon to drive them back in the fleet. They would then re-hoist the kite and still beat the rest of the boats. However, Pendragon still had the speed to catch them on the runs.

I don't think the boat was sold to Zeke. Zeke was the owner of the Whiting 1/4 tonner that sat in Marine del Rey for many years. He may have been helping tow the boat across country for the One Ton Cup in '79. By the way, the story misspells Zeke's last name.

John MacLaurin kept the boat for a while, then sold it to someone else in del Rey. After winning the One Ton Cup the centerboard was replaced by a keel.

MacLaurin built a 45 foot IOR Davidson, then a 30.5 rating One Tonner, a Davidson Ultimate 30 (the best U30 by far), two Davidson 30 MORC boats (the first one fell apart before it could race - poor build), then a Davidson 52 that was the prototype for the TP 52 class. He will soon be launching his new Davidson 70.

The Purple Pendragon was also one of the first boats to ever have a mylar genoa, brought along by Lowell North when they sailed in the 3/4 Ton Cup in '78. It was dark green in color, nicknamed "the garbage bag sail".

[waikikin]

Paul, very interesting memories & must have been some great racing & some real competetive design going on, my only boats to add are a half tonner(not sure of rating or designer) that I raced against in a mixed fleet at RMYC Port Hacking mid eighties called Screw Loose with a cheeky set of feet on the transom, she had won Syd-Hobart in the seventies I think but seriously slow, saw her later in Port Moresby(PNG) & I also raced on a Duncanson 34(Blue Poles) till a couple of years ago that may have been a 3/4 tonner but had been modified by a talented rigger/yachtsman to get some extra "go" - wicked to windward & seemed to screw a extra couple of meters to weather every wave she crossed, but a little wild off the breeze- had a big day out with the log pegged at 11 knots+? that did end badly!!!!! All the best from Jeff. PS:Great thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Paul B

Should be something like:

1973 Carter Ydra (Peterson Ganbare missed a mark and finished 2nd)
1974 Peterson Gumboots
1975 Peterson Pied Piper
1976 ?
1977 Farr Red Lion
1978 Holland? Bremen?
1979 Davidson Pendragon (1978 3/4 Ton World Champ)

I think '76 should have been the Chance Resolute Salmon.

'78 I think was a Holland, but per the story from Gary B it was called Tilsag.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Paul B

1973 Ron Holland Eygthene (sp?)
1974 ?
1975 Farr 45 Degrees South
1976 Whiting Magic Bus
1977 Faroux (sp?) Bullit
1978 Yamaha 25 modified sailed by Gary Weisman and Roy Cundiff

The name of the '78 Yamaha was Magician.

[Gary Baigent]

Absolutely right PaulB, the 1979 One Ton Cup was at Newport, Rhode Island, not British Columbia (I was mixing up the venues of 3/4 ton Pendragon with the One Ton version). Re the story of Zeke D? - I got that directly from Laurie Davidson - and he would have known who bought Pendragon from John MacLauren. But then again I could have scrambled his amusing trailer towing story.
One Tonners:
1976 was Britton Chance's Resolute Salmon
1978 was Tilsaig, Ron Holland design, in Germany - Bremen was second.
1/4 Tonners:
Fauroux's Bullitt won in both 1979 and 1980.