Old Quarter Tonners -Magic Bus

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

I trust you protested. By *your description* that's a clear rule 2 breach. There was a similar incident at the i14 worlds in 2005, the offender was given a DND and the boat that was sat on given redress (which returned them to the first place that they were holding before the incident). Case 78 in the casebook is pretty clear.

We probably should have filed, but as it turned out we won anyway even with the shennanigans.

However, I think it could be more difficult to win this type of protest in a mixed fleet/handicap event rather than a OD event. I'm sure their pro would have had all sorts of plausible deniability for each incident.

It definitely isn't the first time I've witnessed this sort of "Sailmaker War" out on the course, and I'm sure it won't be the last.

[quartermaster]

I have been following a few of the conversations that have been posted. I am the owner of the 1/4 ton "FUN", now renamed "Joyicity". I have been sailing since the late 70's and racing since the early 80's. I started out on folkboats, Knarrs and old woodys. Those were corinthian classes at the time and we had a lot of fun going slow. The point wasn't so much to win at any cost, but to compeate in a race, do your best, then meet at the host club and have a few drinks and a good jaw. I've noticed a stedy decline in this type of sailing over the years, much to my dismay. I don't get it. The sport of sailing was one of the last bastions of sports that anyone could participate in, at any age, and compete on an even keel with the best. If you did well against the rock stars, so much the better, but it was all in fun. Nowadays it seems the focus is more on the winning, at any cost, and the good old days of comaraderie and fair play are all but a dim memory. What's happened to our society to foster such a sea change. Have we lost our way? What is the point of the sport if cheating and bad sportsmanship are considered o.k.?I don't know, maybe I'm hopelessly old fashioned, but I relly don't enjoy racing when so many see it as way to force they're egos on others. I've restored my boat and am in the process of trying to get the quarters back together to race again, similar to what they are doing in Europe. Thats a picture of my boat in this months Latitude 38 under sitings and on the Quarter ton website in England. You sound like you have been there in the hey day of I.O.R. and experienced it first hand. I hope to inspire others to find these old boats, restore them, and race a corinthian class again.

Quartermaster

[phum]

Quartermaster,
Re. sailing/racing today
You have never spoken a truer word.
From a real dinosour, bring back the IOR. days and long live the small boats.
Peter

[booster]

quartermaster!
True, I see that you own the quartertonner FUN. Do you know what happened to BIG FUN? A Laurie Davidsson 2-tonner (or 1-tonner).
Regards,
Booster

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by booster

quartermaster!
True, I see that you own the quartertonner FUN. Do you know what happened to BIG FUN? A Laurie Davidsson 2-tonner (or 1-tonner).
Regards,
Booster

If you are thinking about Great Fun, the 50 footer, it was sunk.

It took 2 attempts. The first sttempt to collect the insurance money had the boat "sink" off SF during a delivery by the Boat Nanny. The boat stayed awash and ended up in the harbourmouth of Santa Cruz. What the authortiies found did not match the story of the BN, so I believe he eventually went to jail for insurance fraud. The Owner remained untouched.

About 2 or 3 years layer the boat sank again under suspect circumstances.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by quartermaster

I have been following a few of the conversations that have been posted. I am the owner of the 1/4 ton "FUN", now renamed "Joyicity". Quartermaster

I saw the article in Lat 38 and you were quoted as saying you knew where a lot of old QTs were in San Diego. Can you PM me with any info you have?

[phum]

Quartermaster,
I read somewhere that Fun had had a keel change amongst other things, did you do these mods?
Peter

[booster]

Paul B!
What a story about GREAT FUN! It is even worse than the R-6 sliding down a hill in Switzerland, I wrote about. I recall an episode there a Ron Holland designed half-tonner was sank in the harbour before (I think) the last race in the half-ton cup in England. The boat had winning potential and had some innovations in rudder-design. Very small dimensions at water lline, and the top of the rudder extended far aft the skeg, as an extension of the skeg. The boat was steered by Rodney Pattison (or Harold Cudmore). The boat was recovered. It was subspected to be sabotage since a knife was found in the toilet valve. There was no time to clean the boat though. They rounded the first mark in first place, but the stanch from the boat was un-bearable. They had to retire.
Regards,
Booster

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by booster

Paul B!
What a story about GREAT FUN! It is even worse than the R-6 sliding down a hill in Switzerland, I wrote about. I recall an episode there a Ron Holland designed half-tonner was sank in the harbour before (I think) the last race in the half-ton cup in England. The boat had winning potential and had some innovations in rudder-design. Very small dimensions at water lline, and the top of the rudder extended far aft the skeg, as an extension of the skeg. The boat was steered by Rodney Pattison (or Harold Cudmore). The boat was recovered. It was subspected to be sabotage since a knife was found in the toilet valve. There was no time to clean the boat though. They rounded the first mark in first place, but the stanch from the boat was un-bearable. They had to retire.
Regards,
Booster

I don't quite believe a story about sabotage at the HT Worlds. I especially don't believe that Pattison or Cudmore re-floated the boat and raced, only to drop out due to some odour.

I do know a lot of race boats in those days were not plumbed with a vented loop, and pumped directly overboard. Therefore, if you left the pump handle in the wrong orientation the head would back siphon and flood / sink the boat. This happened on a N/M 41 I sailed on. One of the crew used the head just before leaving the boat on Saturday night, and when we arrived at the boat Sunday morning it was knee deep in water.


As far as dropping boats off cliffs, one of the Santa Cruz 33s in IOR One Ton (27.5 rating) form with small fractional rig and other mods "fell off the trailer over a cliff" in Mexico during a delivery back from race. Of course this was after it was clear to all that the SC 33 was not at all competitive as a One Tonner. The insurance company paid off and the SC 33 was replaced by a nice new Olson 30.

[Mychael]

Reading through this thread has prompted me to again post some queries about my boat which I've now owned nearly 3 yrs.

It is a Cole 26, lead fin keeler, spade rudder, masthead rig, launched (as near as I can ascertain) around 1984-1986. Probably one of the last designed for the IOR quarter Ton class.

I have been unable to get much information about this particular design, I had even tracked down the man himself (Peter Cole) and wrote to him but Peter is now in his 80's, never replied and on following up my letter was told he "had no data" on this design.

Any boatbuilders that had anything to do with the design are now defunct and I simply cannot find anything but the most basic of data about my boat.
I don't know how many were built when they were designed or when they finished. How many were bulit or how successfully they were in racing. I know my boat apparantly did very well in club competitions.

I'd like to know things like their AVS (angle of vanishing stability), offshore category rating,ballast ratio, ballast keel weight, designed total weight (I suppose that would vary from boat to boat).

I'm thinking that if my boat was designed to meet a specific class (quarter ton) then it must have met some standard specifications, even if only in generalities it would be more information then what I have now.

So can anyone help???

The only data I have is a drawing of the sail plan.

I know of only one other boat here in Victoria and I've been unable to get in contact with the owner.

Mychael

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Mychael

Reading through this thread has prompted me to again post some queries about my boat which I've now owned nearly 3 yrs.

It is a Cole 26, lead fin keeler, spade rudder, masthead rig, launched (as near as I can ascertain) around 1984-1986. Probably one of the last designed for the IOR quarter Ton class.

I have been unable to get much information about this particular design, I had even tracked down the man himself (Peter Cole) and wrote to him but Peter is now in his 80's, never replied and on following up my letter was told he "had no data" on this design.

Any boatbuilders that had anything to do with the design are now defunct and I simply cannot find anything but the most basic of data about my boat.
I don't know how many were built when they were designed or when they finished. How many were bulit or how successfully they were in racing. I know my boat apparantly did very well in club competitions.

I'd like to know things like their AVS (angle of vanishing stability), offshore category rating,ballast ratio, ballast keel weight, designed total weight (I suppose that would vary from boat to boat).

I'm thinking that if my boat was designed to meet a specific class (quarter ton) then it must have met some standard specifications, even if only in generalities it would be more information then what I have now.

So can anyone help???

The only data I have is a drawing of the sail plan.

I know of only one other boat here in Victoria and I've been unable to get in contact with the owner.

Mychael

I might guess the boat is from a design in the early/mid 1970s, and not one of the last of the breed.

It is possible Mr. Cole was not receiving his due payments on boats out of the mold, so maybe has little to say about it. I know that is the way other designers have been in this regard.


As a QT it had to be measured, but something like AVS would not have been calculated. I'm sure you can get a copy of the certificate from the national authority (reference Sail Number), which would give you the ballast weight and an approximation of the displacement. Depending on how bumped the hull is it will probably weight 10% or so less than the DSPL shown on the certificate.

[Mychael]

I've already been in contact with Yachting Australia, the only organization (that I know of) that handles that sort of thing.
I got a quick reply, but no help as they said they did not have records for boats under about 30ft size.

Coming from an automotive and aviation hobby background I am truly amazed how hard it is to track a boats history or heritage. I don't know if it's an "Aussie thing" or the same all over the world.

Also sail numbers here are club related so can change with owners, my boat alone has had two different sail numbers (that I know of) before I bought her and changed again to my own clubs numbers when I took ownership.

Mychael

Originally Posted by Paul B

I might guess the boat is from a design in the early/mid 1970s, and not one of the last of the breed.

It is possible Mr. Cole was not receiving his due payments on boats out of the mold, so maybe has little to say about it. I know that is the way other designers have been in this regard.


As a QT it had to be measured, but something like AVS would not have been calculated. I'm sure you can get a copy of the certificate from the national authority (reference Sail Number), which would give you the ballast weight and an approximation of the displacement. Depending on how bumped the hull is it will probably weight 10% or so less than the DSPL shown on the certificate.

[booster]

Paul B and CT249!
Well, I didn't quite believe a story myself about sabotage at the HT Worlds of the Ron Holland design. Perhaps it was in Yachting World I read it, probably the same year when KING ONE with Paul Elvström was the winner. Perhaps CT249 can give the story some support from his old magazines...
Regards,
Booster

[C 249]

Hi all!

The story about the Holland (Iberian Shamrock - sponsored by Iberian Airways ) was that it did almost sink, but I think it finished all the races. However, it was a noticeable dog. I think that was the boat that (according to the mags) ended up with a dog tag and official certificate of registration as a canine, after Harold Cudmore went up and got it registered as a woofer. Rob Humphreys did an article that looked at the lack of speed of Iberian Shamrock with the success of Tilsalg and Bremen and surmised that it could have been the half tonner's rating bump or perhaps the keel section (I'm going from memory here, the mag's in storage up at the lake).

I like Booster's story, tho'!!! :-)

[C 249]

Originally Posted by Mychael

Reading through this thread has prompted me to again post some queries about my boat which I've now owned nearly 3 yrs.

It is a Cole 26, lead fin keeler, spade rudder, masthead rig, launched (as near as I can ascertain) around 1984-1986. Probably one of the last designed for the IOR quarter Ton class.

I have been unable to get much information about this particular design, I had even tracked down the man himself (Peter Cole) and wrote to him but Peter is now in his 80's, never replied and on following up my letter was told he "had no data" on this design.

Any boatbuilders that had anything to do with the design are now defunct and I simply cannot find anything but the most basic of data about my boat.
I don't know how many were built when they were designed or when they finished. How many were bulit or how successfully they were in racing. I know my boat apparantly did very well in club competitions.

I'd like to know things like their AVS (angle of vanishing stability), offshore category rating,ballast ratio, ballast keel weight, designed total weight (I suppose that would vary from boat to boat).

I'm thinking that if my boat was designed to meet a specific class (quarter ton) then it must have met some standard specifications, even if only in generalities it would be more information then what I have now.

So can anyone help???

The only data I have is a drawing of the sail plan.

I know of only one other boat here in Victoria and I've been unable to get in contact with the owner.

Mychael

Mychael

There were a few of the Cole 26s (4 or 5 racing I think) in Vic, some in WA where I seem to recall they were built, and at least one in NSW.

They may have shared the hull shape of the custom Cole 1/4 tonners. One may have been called Intension, which did well in Sydney. Either she was renamed "Evergreen" or "Evergreen" was built later. Both had lower-profile wedge-shaped cabins. "Evergreen" did cat 2 races like the Sydney Mooloolaba when owned by Hobart winning skipper Mike Green. I don't know how to find Mike (unless you can grab him off the TP52 Quest) apart from through the Elliott 7 association. Until recently he ran an E7 called "Evergreen" and may still do. He may be at Quantum Sails (????????????)

I may have a few basic dimensions of the Cole in an ancient mag. PM me every now and then to remind me to look for it.