Old hobie cat rigging, new boat.

[MattBentti]

Hello All, i'm Matt Bentti, 22 year old sailor, boat design dreamer.
On the coast around volusia florida, edgewater.

Planning my first wooden/epoxy hull build.

materials i have available at the moment, are the old rigging from my busted up hobie cat

24' mast
9' boom

will be restoring all that and buying new block and tackle, blah blah.

what i'm interested in, is insight and advice about a wide beam mono hull, to use the hobie gear on (yes i still have all the old sails and such)

at the moment i'm not opposed to any styles that i can think of, however a twin keel, daggerboards maybe? interests me to aid the heeling.

other than that i'm open to any and all suggestions, and thank you for your time reading my first post, i'm happy to now be a part of this forum.

Welcome to the forum, Matt! An aquaintance of mine-Tinho Dornellas- runs a windsurfing school at Kelly Park in Merritt Island , just to the south of you. He just had someone donate an old glass Thistle and modified it by putting a Hobie 14 main on the boat-118 sq.ft. vs the 136 of the normal Thistle main. I'm presuming you have a broken(?) Hobie 16 mast since the 14 mast is 22' and the 16 mast 26'6''. At any rate, the 16 sail area is 218sq.ft. and just as an example of a fairly wide beam boat that carries close to that much area I picked another Sandy Douglass designed boat- the Flying Scott which at 19' has 191 sq.ft. SA:
Flying Scot® Sailboats
Address:http://www.flyingscot.com/ Changed:10:42 AM on Saturday, April 8, 2006
You have to make a decision about whether you want a keelboat with self righting characteristics or will a centerboarder do? If you don't really want to build from scratch consider getting an older hull about the same length or a little longer and fix it up. You could look thru various designs for a boat requiring 218 sq.ft. of SA and maybe purchase plans after first running your rig idea by the designer.
If you'd like to see Tinho's Thistle modification just drive down 95 to 528 and go straight toward the beach until you come to the Banana River Drive exit(about 2 miles after the first bridge but before the second bridge); Kelly Park and Tinho's school is right there.. Good Luck! And keep us filled in on what you decide to do...

[MattBentti]

it must have been a hobie 16, the 26'6" sounds more like it, unbroken.

and yes i've seen the school on many occasions, but have yet to visit, hopefully someday soon.

The flying scot's are a very nice hull, and a step in the right direction, however i'm more interested in building the hull myself, or rebuilding/modifying as opposed to buying new.

Currently searching out hull designs for the appropriate 218 sq ft sails.

Intercoastal wayerway/ light beach conditions boat.

before i say anything else, i've got ALOT to learn about the specifics of how all parts of the boat flow together, IE, best keel/centerboard/twin daggerboard,etc will work best, rudders, hull shape, yadda yadda, and i'm learning alot as i go

[MattBentti]

bump...

[MattBentti]

i dont think the multi hulls forums is the best place for this thread, my main goal with it is the aim for a mono hull idea, for a hobie cat 16' mast + rigging, not the catamaran itself

[messabout]

Matt:
We need a little more information about you before beginning to suggest a suitable boat to go under the Hobie rig.

What size boat are you contemplating ?
Are you a very competant sailor or a beginner or somewhere in between ?
How hard are you willing to work while sailing ? The Hobie rig is tall and powerful, are you a good swimmer ?
What is the primary use for your boat ? Is it just to go out and sail fast, cruise the ICW, go on dates, go fishing, or ........? First decide the primary purpose and then we can go from there.

If you just want to go fast, you could consider a Proa, cat, or even a tri. If it is to be a monohull you can go fast with a long skinny boat and a huge rig. One does so at ones own peril. Think International 10 square meter canoes and you get the idea.

Let us know what it is that you want and chances are we will get a lot of interesting (and conflicting) advice. Let the fun begin.

[MattBentti]

Well, i agree, and appologize for not going into better detail before.

I'd never meant to think about making a boat smaller than the hobie 16, use the hobie rig; however, i thought it would have to be around 18'-19'+.

My time sailing has been rather light, a couple small cabin cruisers, i LOVED sunfish, some prams, and thats about it. It wasnt till i joined The Halifax Sailing Club in daytona beach, that i really got hooked on the speed of it all
I'm a more than competant swimmer, and would definantly be building positive flotation with foam into the hull.

Anyway, for the boat, I rather enjoy more effort and activity while sailing, however simplivity isnt bad either. I'm really interested in building a nice river speeder, go fast as hell, and be able to hold a few people as well, i guess a boat that size would be close to 4-6, i'd hope you could sail it with 1-2 people in light winds.



And this morning as i picked up the trusty field guide to sailboats, 2nd edition. I started searching out boats that where related to the sail area of the hobie rig, which Lorsail hinted at, and i've become very interested in the:

C-Scrow
http://www.ncssa.org/cscowprofile.gif


20ft.
Draft:3f. 3in.
Beam:6ft 10in.
weight: 650 lbs minimum
(Sail area: 216 sq. ft.)
Designer: Inland Yacht Association

Anyway, the simplicity really stood out to me, however i'm kicking around ideas of an longer than 20ft one, modfied to use the hobie's jib as well.



PS: What are your opinions on filling an aluminum mast with foam, or is it even a reasonable idea?


Looking foreward to your thoughts.

[frosh]

Hi Matt, I like the suggestion of Doug re C class scow, however I noticed the weight at 650lb. This is super heavy by Aussi standards and could be halved in weight easily and still be strong enough. With a 300 lb boat and two competent crew aboard with the Hobie rig (jib included) this thing should really move, provided your sailing area has reasonable flat water as scows hate large waves. To get ideas on strong construction methods at light weights I suggest that you obtain the following book.
The Gougeon Brothers on Boat Construction, 5th. Edition.

I didn't really suggest a scow but it's a great idea for this area of Florida! If it was built extra lightly that would be a boost as well-I say go for it. You may or may not know about the Lake Eustis Sailing club almost due west from you. Hosts some major scow regattas... Your boat wouldn't be class legal but it sure would be fun to show those guys what a powered up light scow looks-and sails-like.

[MattBentti]

Frosh: I'll definantly look into that book, thanks for the thought!

Lorsail: i went and spoke to tinho at the kellypark windsurfing school, great guy, thanks for the advice, seeing the hobie 14 rig on that rugged thistle gave me some confidence in my ideas.

and the area i will mostly be sailing in is the ICW, which is the closest, unless its heavy winds, there isnt much chop, especially on the windward side of the channel.

my ideas of a light speed demon for the weekends are slowly coming together, thanks for the ideas and keep em coming!

[MattBentti]

update: just bought the book frosh, looks great, cant wait till it gets here.

and on the scow note, i'm not married to that design yet, its just the one that has most stood out to me

i'm more than willing to surpass comfort for speed

i'm imagining butt rests on the sides, with a stern to bow hiking band for the feet!

anyway i'm signing off, goodnight all!

[frosh]

Hi Matt, You have made quick progress. I have owned a few scow moths in the past and they were the most fun boats I ever owned. The reason being that you sail them heeled upwind to get maximum leverage and they a nice feel with the crew sitting a fair height above the water surface. Off the wind providing the all up weight is fairly light scows just plane and plane faster. It is a fantastic sensation. If there was a sailing scene for A or C class scows in Australia I would be into it for sure. Regards and best wishes.

[MattBentti]

cannot for the life of me find any purchasable c-scow type design plans to buy or find.

I even gave Melges in WI a call, "sorry the info we have on the website is the only info we have available" thanks alot lady!

any thoughts? been googling for hours >_<

edit: Since i will be modifying any design i find with the hobie 16 mast setup main and jib, i'm wondering about professional designer consultation.

i also remember looking at a local designers webpage recently, he's out of st augustine FL, and has some info about unstayed masts on his site, i just cant remember what or where it was!

[frosh]

Hi Matt, the way I see it is like this. I assume that you have the necessary desire to build the monohull and some wood working skills. If not then this project is unlikely to reach fruition. If the answer is yes, I would get a professional designer locally to produce a design and plans based on an existing boat that you like the look of. It is never going to be your cheapest option but can be heaps of fun and very rewarding when it is done. The cheapest option is probably to forget about your Hobie rig and buy a second hand monohull that has been sitting in some ones garage for a while and is just taking up room. Best of luck. If you want to look at the lines of an old but very good scow design, which was an Australian Moth go to:
www.moth.asn.au/download/Cole_super_moth.pdf

Matt, the guy you were thinking of is Eric Sponberg; check ou his website at: www.sponbergyachtdesign.com ; he is a great guy -very approachable- but having a custom design done by a man of his caliber is not cheap. Talk to him and if nothing else he may be able to point you in the right direction.