Old hobie cat rigging, new boat.

i'm having horribly problems with my internet connection at the moment, could you link a couple images of the simple 3 panel type of hull your talking about mess?

do the 2 side panels intersect in the front vertically, or does the bottom panel come up to the deck at the front, and the side panels are just the sides. ?

anyway, i have seen the niceness of the flat bottom wetted suface while heeled.

 

i'm really liking the y flyer shape


btw whats the diffirence between a transom that leans towards fore and one that leans aft?

 

Matt: Google up Chesapeake Light Craft. Look for the boat they call; Jimmy Skiff. Thats a three panel boat. There are many others of similar layout.

In answer to a couple of your questions..... You can have the sides vertical and it makes a super simple boat. But it is kind of ugly that way. Bolger does the vertical side bit frequently and with impunity. He argues vehemetly for the merits of such a layout. Simplicity is king with Bolger and he is a way smart old dude even though controversial. The usual example of the skiff/flattie/sharpie boat type has some flare in the sides. It looks a little more boaty that way and it also adds a little extra righting moment when at large heel angles.

The bottom is rockered at both ends. Both ends are above the waterline by a little bit. There is usually some rake to the stem. Raking the stem shortens the waterline but it makes flared sides come together at the front more easily during construction. It also helps keep some of the splashed or sprayed water out of the boat. In no case does the skiff bottom simply curve upward to meet the top of the stem. There are such boats however. They are often called garveys when laid out like that.

Transoms: When a transom is raked forward its kind of sexy looking. Boats of that sort have rudders mounted forward of the transom out of practicality. Foreward raked transoms take some of the weight out of the aft end of the boat, that arrangement also reduces the windage at that end of the boat. Forward rake is mostly a characteristic of big boats who carry the bottom/transom intersection way above the water line. If not kept well above the water, a following sea situation will cause potentially dangerous problems like broaching. An aft raked transom that is sharply angled, say like a dory, is to help the boat behave when exposed to following seas or wave trains approaching from aft. Outboard powered boats will have an aft rake of about 15 degrees because the outboards are built to work with that amount of transom angle. A transom mounted rudder in either foreward or aft raked configuration becomes problematic. The rudder will tend to lift or bury the after end of the boat depending on which way the rake angle goes. A hot rod boat would probably be better with a vertical transom.

 

Hi Matt and welcome.

Keep in mind as you are thinking about your project, that the primary load on a mast is compression.

The compression in the mast comes from the righting moment of the boat and the shroad angle to the mast. A Hobie cat has a fairly wide shroud base compared to the same size monohull. Conversly a Hobie cat is capable of generating very high righting moments (for a 16ft boat) with trapezes etc. much higher then a comparable monohull.

God that rambling was confusing!! Bottom line: a Hobie Cat rig without spreaders may not be suitable for a narrow shroud base that a small monohull may have. The tube is probably ok, but you may have to add some spreaders if the shroud angle at the extrusion is getting much less then the 10-12 degrees or so. If the angles get too tight the rig gets unstable and is a real pain to keep tuned..

If all that is as confusing as it sounds, just go for it!! You said you are a good swimmer and the intercoastal isn't all that wide. Have a good time building and see what works and what doesn't.

I certainly agree that Eric is a great resource. He has certainly been helpful around here and he is in your back yard.

 

Dont worry about rambling, your all making good sense.

Guy, i Agree, i am concerned about beam/daggerboard/centerboard vs mast hight & sail area stability issues

at the moment i'm thinking of many c-scow/y flyer/ flying dutchman designs fitted to suit this plan

coupld new questions..

How would i go about figuring out what size center/daggerboard i'm going to need, and what beam

At what point do i start losing out when the LOA rises

What type of rudder should i persue

I belive a daggerboard is the easiest simplist way to go at first, what do you think?

I'm thinking of a modern simple y flyer esque, hard chine, vert transom (easy) (would transom extension aid in any thing?)

 

Matt, with respect, it would be a mistake to expect guys on this forum to give you more than general ideas about your new monohull to be built. Remember that you agreed that talking to Eric Sponberg for design details was the way to go. Therefore asking very specific questions on vitals such as hull beam, centreboard configuration and position should be posed to the qualified expert who is helping you with the design.
Details such transom rake etc. are minor compared to matching rig to hull size and shape. We would all enjoy designing your boat for you Matt, but realistically you will need to spend quite a bit of money by the time the project is finished. You do not want to risk an expensive flop, do you?
What you need to do however, is decide some basics such as how many crew, where will you be sailing, what are the usual wind and water conditions, do you intend to use trapezes? etc.

 

I'm not asking anybody to design anything for me Frosh, its all a constructive text based collaboration, whats so bad about talking about something were all interested in, and taking anyone who's interesteds ideas and putting them to thought?


Yeah, i've been waiting on a reply from Eric, i suppose its time to write another email.

 

Matt, nothing bad about talking about it; but you should have let me know that all you were wanting to do is have a discussion.

 

I spoke to eric, and the prices are as you guys said, i'm unsure where i'm going to go from here.

 

Matt;
You would be well advised to examine your motives as objectively as you can. You want to build a boat or you want to go sailing. If you want to go sailing before the summer is over then there is a simple best option. Buy a boat that someone else does not need. There are a lot of them out there. Just for giggles I went to the Y-Flyer web site. There are a number of them that can be had for less than the cost of materials for your build project. That is not the only class that has plenty for sale. Just for fun investigate the Fireball class. It is scowlike and goes pretty well for a flat paneled boat. Maybe not as big as you'd like though. If you were on the west coast you could look at Geary 18's. Theyre flatties that work very well. Lots of other possibilities for scooping up a used boat that will get you sailing sooner rather than later and you'll save some money in the process. Several years ago I bought a 20 foot Melges scow for $500 fully equiped. Later, I bought a Thistle for $75. Both were restored for very little money and within a reasonable time frame that did not even approach the build time for a new boat. Check out some clubs like Sarasota Sailing Squadron or Davis Island Yacht club. There always seems to be a bunch of boats for sale, many of them priced right.

If you are compelled to build a boat, it is best to start with an open mind when selecting a type that you want or think you want. Abandon the H16 rig temporarily because that is a serious determinant for the kind of boat you'll have to build. That rig is powerful and you already have it but it is not the greatest thing since sliced bread. For one thing it is a bear to erect, especially single handed. You can have a very fast boat without having to go as miserably high as that thing. A turbo 14 rig would be more sensible and easier to adapt to miscellaneous boats. For even more convenience, You could split the rig like a schooner. Bolger has a two masted boat he calls Scooner (his spelling not mine)that will go like hell. That one may be bigger than you had in mind, around 24 feet I think. It is a fact that trailer boats are used in direct proportion to the amount of hassle involved in getting into and out of the water and rigging and unrigging. Thats one reason why Sunfish and Lasers are so numerous. Examine your priorities, pick one, and go for it.

Best of luck in your quest.

 

Hi Matt, got to agree 100% with messabout re his last posting. Do want to build the monohull very badly, (no pun intended), or just go sailing this season for a fairly low cost. I did bring this question up on my 20 April posting. Once you have decided this, the rest will follow. However the H16 rig is not particularly good for a mono as it is very top heavy and the mast does not have suitable flex characteristics that you will need for a mono. Also is it in good enough condition to deserve recycling?

 

I'm returning to the halifax sailing club of daytona beach FL for some h16-h18 and force/laser sailing, and hopefully get to crew on some offshore races!!


If you feel all this writing was in vain, i'm sorry you ever posted, My plans to construct were maybe a little misplaced, but i do have a true yearn to build. And your right, the 100$ annual to get back into the club, why didnt i think of that before..

Anyway, this was my first thread at boatdesign.net. I hope to be positive and constructive in the many more that follow.

 

I'm not precisely sure why you're bent on putting a multi-hull rig on a monohull....

I can entirely agree about not fixing up some old POS Hobie 16, but you could make a nice trimaran with the H16 rig easily enough. It'll be lighter and faster than any monohull you come up with.

 

well that'll always be an option, but as i said im letting the idea go for now after rejoining my old sailing club, which has quite a few restoration projects that i can better put my time towards namely a 25' capri named tobasco with some damage from a pylon at a dock during a hurricane! should be fun.


after further reading and learning about other aspects, plug/mold composite construction has caught my eye, but anyway theres more than one way to skin a cat, peace guys.