Notable open & development class racers....

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

---12.75' Moth foiler-max speed (so far): 27.9 knots-uses movable ballast.
---Aussie 18-max speed-(so far): 30 knots-uses movable ballast.
---VOR70-max speed-(so far):40.6knots; 23.45 knots for 24 hours-uses movable ballast.
---Alfa RomeoII(sistership to Wild Oats)-max speed-(so far):35 knots-uses movable ballast.
---Open 60-max speed-so far-30 knots-uses movable ballast.
------------------
And this is just the begining: movable ballast applied to big boats in much the same way it is applied to dinghies is revolutionizing monohull speed-now just 10% below that of the fastest multies. And those fast multies use hydrofoils! When mono's begin to use hydrofoils in combination with movable ballast that gap will go away.......

Moth's and 18's use movable ballast? That's news to me. Since when has crew weight been declared ballast? Are you saying that Rohan Veal is ballast? That might get you removed from his Xmas card list.

Did someone say something about movable ballast in this thread?

RHOUGH:"Did someone say something about movable ballast in this thread?" Why, yes-early on-it is one of the most notable technologies being used in many Open and Development Classes....
+++++++++++

Monohull development Speed and Speed/Length Ratio's:
=========================
---12.75' Moth foiler-max speed (so far): 27.9 knots-uses movable ballast. Nom-S/L=8.41
---Aussie 18-max speed-(so far): 30 knots-uses movable ballast. S/L=7.07
---VOR70-max speed-(so far):40.6knots; 23.45 knots for 24 hours-uses movable ballast.S/L=4.85
---Alfa RomeoII(sistership to Wild Oats)-max speed-(so far):35 knots-uses movable ballast.S/L=3.62
---Open 60-max speed-so far-30 knots-uses movable ballast. S/L=3.87
------------------

Farr designed (big) canter:
index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=36859
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=post&id=36859

[Stephen Ditmore]

Doug:
I think there's an important difference between a sprint and an ocean passage. And I agree with RHough's implication that the latter is the real test of a boat's efficacy as a vehicle.

[CT 249]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

RHOUGH:"Did someone say something about movable ballast in this thread?" Why, yes-early on-it is one of the most notable technologies being used in many Open and Development Classes....
+++++++++++

Monohull development Speed and Speed/Length Ratio's:
=========================
---12.75' Moth foiler-max speed (so far): 27.9 knots-uses movable ballast. Nom-S/L=8.41
---Aussie 18-max speed-(so far): 30 knots-uses movable ballast. S/L=7.07
---VOR70-max speed-(so far):40.6knots; 23.45 knots for 24 hours-uses movable ballast.S/L=4.85
---Alfa RomeoII(sistership to Wild Oats)-max speed-(so far):35 knots-uses movable ballast.S/L=3.62
---Open 60-max speed-so far-30 knots-uses movable ballast. S/L=3.87
------------------

Movable ballast is also used on;

MacGregor 26 powersailors

Optimists

International Dragons

The 1880s designed New Haven Dinghy

Catalina 22s

And many other very slow boats (the Dragon isn't slow).

In fact just about every racing boat uses movable ballast, so promoting movable ballast is a bit like promoting self-draining cockpits; yes the fast boats have them but so do many of the slow boats.

And of course, there has always been a vast difference between human ballast and movable ballast.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by CT 249

And of course, there has always been a vast difference between human ballast and movable ballast.

Of corse, with human ballast you have to pick 10 guys to go sailing. With movable ballast you can go alone and you just have to put water on the right tank

[CT 249]

I don't have a massive problem with (non-powered) water ballast boats, Vega. But is IS possible to sail alone without 10 guys. Joshua Slocum, Eric Tabarly and Robin Knox-Johnston (most of the time), and the early BOC boats managed to sail singlehanded without water ballast.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Vega

The Open 5.7 (and the 5.0) are recent boats that come in the line of the 7.5 Open, but are simpler and less expensive boats designed more to be used in sailing schools and as a fun boat and a fast day boat.

They say about it:

“The Open 5,70 is designed for sailing schools, renting, clubs and to be used by young people with a reduced surveillance and, in regatta, by anybody who have passed the age for dinghy acrobatics.”

http://www.finot.com/general/index_ang.htm

What has happened is that the boat is not only relatively inexpensive but also fast and it turned out to be the popular racing monotype that the 7.5 never was (too expensive).

The boat is also very forgiven and very stable. It is a polyvalent boat that can be used for learning or daysailing with the family and for racing. It is also a safe boat, it is unsinkable and uncapsizable, (or at least it is what they say).

It is said that it is easy to go downwind at 14K. The boat can be sailed at 18k and the speed record is at the moment 21.4K.

I believe that the success of this boat has not to do with being fast, but with being fast, easy, polyvalent and inexpensive.

Well, it looks like the boat is also becoming popular in America.

It was elected Boat of the year by the magazine "sailing World" in the category of Best One-Design.

[Stephen Ditmore]

But alas, the Open 5.7 is a one-design (i.e. monotype), not a development class racer (despite its name).

Here is the current U.S. National Champion Classic Moth (left) next to a Classic Moth with rounder sections and less rocker. The national champ, "Mousetrap", is essencially the bow of the "Mistral" design with a stern very close to that of a Europe.

[Stephen Ditmore]

And here are some Classic Moth sailing photos.

[Stephen Ditmore]

Cudos to Mutua Madrilena, the Botin & Carkeek Transpac 52 that has prevailed recently in that class. http://www.transpac52.org/Boats/mutuamadrilena.htm

If you have Flash9 and a high speed internet connection, Botin & Carkeek has a new website for you at www.botincarkeek.com. Botin is part of the Emirates Team New Zealand design team.

[Guillermo]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

If you have Flash9 and a high speed internet connection, Botin & Carkeek has a new website for you at www.botincarkeek.com. Botin is part of the Emirates Team New Zealand design team.

Better use this one http://www.botincarkeek.com/home.html to avoid the long and outdated opening page.

I find this new trend of web pages from designers quite unuseful. There have become only marketing tools full with nice images but almost no technical information.

Cheers.

[Roly]

And of course, there has always been a vast difference between human ballast and movable ballast.

Call me stupid, but please explain.I thought effective ballast, would be just that.
At least when you lose human ballast and there is no other, the boat doesn't sail off without you.

[woudaboy]

Originally Posted by Paul B

The down cycle has been about 20 years here in the US, with no upturn in sight. There is no rule under consideration that I know of that will give the same opportunities that IOR and MORC did.

IMS in the USA sure didn't, there was no IMS racing for boats under about 40 feet, and no real significant IMS turnout at all. IRC is not really a rule in the same sense, and not catching on in the US anywhere except where it is mandated, mostly for good reason.

Minis are not good for the type of racing most people do and will never be big in the USA. The cost of a competitive mini pretty much precludes the cheap entry level home design and build.

The Open 40 would be at least $200K US for a frontrunner custom build, so not really an entry level project.

I know some old Quarters are being revived, especially in Britian and some in Europe. It was attempted in San Francisco about ten years ago, about a dozen old quarter pounders were refurbished and raced, but people lost interest. I can't believe anyone is building new, just refurbishing old, right? If new ones are in build can you tell us about them?

I know of a yard where an old Peterson pin tail QT and an old production Holland daggerboarder are sitting on trailers. They could prbably be had for next to nothing, but the cost of bringing them back to race form would be many times more than they would ever be worth. I once thought about buying and refurbishing an old Peterson fractional daggerboard QT. I came to my senses in time. It would have cost more than the original build by at least double to put it in shape. At the same time a friend had an old Whiting QT, Magic Bus type, and it never raced once since it was an ongoing refurb project for more than 10 years.

I'd be interested in speaking with you about some of the old dead and dying quarter tonners, if this is an appropriate forum.

Art

[Stephen Ditmore]

For anyone interested, photos of the launch of my Classic Moth can be found in my gallery.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../500/ppuser/38

My location seems to have a profound effect on trim! I sit farther forward when singlehanding.