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  #61  
Old 03-01-2011, 04:11 AM
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waikikin waikikin is offline
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This is a great thread, I'm really liking the pics that Rayman is posting, great to see framing details etc, especially like the pic of the dozer & grab with the derrick on the beach. Thanks heaps for your input Rayman- awesome stuff. Regards from Jeff.
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  #62  
Old 03-01-2011, 05:23 AM
sltak sltak is offline
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I agree with Waikikin - thanks Rayman, from me too. The pictures and knowledge are just great.
To add to the pictures of scow bows, I found a couple of old photos of my scow during the building. The bow is fairly simple - a hard shoulder and a straight line from there to the stem. (I can see why some of these curved structures gave trouble.) The vee section at the bow is part of a cone. When I came to plank it up, I couldn't get the 3/4" macrocarpa to bend around the curve. The designer told me to taper the planks and fan them from down at the forefoot, so they nailed up with no bending at all. The second skin went on similarly. The bottom, which is flat, was planked double diagonal fashion.
The first photo shows the strongback and two sides, which were prefabricated and assembled with pre-fabricated bulkheads, all bolted together. The longitudinal stringers (sawn and nailed, not bent) are in place and faired, as are the nailers on each side of the strongback. It is ready to start bottom planking. The second photo shows the first layer of planking on the bow. It was all pretty easy in the end. The engineering in those big work scows, which were twice or three times the length of mine, must have been much more of a problem.
Looking forward to Rayman's next post!
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New Zealand Scow-scow-planking-1.jpg  New Zealand Scow-33-scow-planking-3.jpg  
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  #63  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:27 AM
maximus maximus is offline
 
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I was in Wellington a few weeks ago and visited the city/maritime museum, a very cool place. Here are some pictures I took while there. Also, I see a lot of similar features between the scows in NZ, San Fransisco bay and the Great Lakes. It would be wonderful to find a book that compares their features and working style.

Brent






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  #64  
Old 03-01-2011, 01:26 PM
CutOnce CutOnce is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximus View Post
Also, I see a lot of similar features between the scows in NZ, San Fransisco bay and the Great Lakes. It would be wonderful to find a book that compares their features and working style.
Funny. I was thinking about the Great Lakes cargo scows the last time I read new posts in this thread. I've dived on some wrecks and seen photos of these working boats that seem eerily similar to the Kiwi boats in this thread. Similar bows, construction, lines and size.

The Great Lakes feature just about all the same wind, weather and wave issues as the Kiwi boats, plus the annual hard water season (ice) where they were usually dragged out on ways. No worms, barnacles or salt, so they remained relatively fast and lasted until they were lost on rocks. Deep, cold fresh water. My parents live on Lake Huron and the shortest crossing from their location is 85 miles to Michigan.

Cheap to build, carried good loads and not expensive to operate - lots survived past commercial sail and became towed barges once steam took over.

--
CutOnce
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  #65  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:11 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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Maximus, pic 1 could be any one of the 30 small scows by Davy Darroch, around 65ft. pic 2 I can't identify, hard to read the name but she is a dedicated log hauler (no bulwarks) and the location is Tauranga harbour, Omokoroa point in the background. The more upright stem and nice sheer points towards a Nicholl build , 4 headsails but no dolphin striker.
pic 3 ECHO in Wellington. "The wackiest ship in the navy" Remember the movie? Jack Lemon ? You should have jumped on the ferry and gone over to Picton and had your fill on her. Genuine WW2 relic.
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  #66  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:21 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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Here's a little history lesson for anyone interested.
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  #67  
Old 03-01-2011, 09:47 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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That pic of MOA is how she would have been loaded when seized by Von Luckner when he escaped from Motuihi Is.
Dedicated log scows in general carried a steam boiler and engine on the foredeck to work the jumbo derrick.The boilers ranged from a squat thimble in the forepeak to a small vertical or locomotive types out on deck. The "babbling brook" (cook) was generally the winchman

When Von L grabbed the Moa, another logger, Rangi was a few miles astern, saw Moa stop then bear away in a northerly direction towing a small launch. Guessing something was not right Rangi made for the nearest settlement with a telegraph and notified authorities. Making an educated guess the cable laying ship IRIS was despatched directly to ***** Is in the Kermadeck group, halfway to Fiji. When they got there Von L was raiding the shipwreck stores and so was captured. I believe he got quite a hero's welcome on arrival back in Auckland and was also handed a bill from the Kauri timber Co. for the logs he jettisoned from the cargo.( I don't know how true this is) It must have been a strain foodwise as scowmen lived on what they caught in the way of fish. There was no freezer to reach into and only limited fresh water, generally enough for a week at a time.
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  #68  
Old 03-02-2011, 10:09 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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a couple of casual ones- first a chinese scow seen sailing on the Gobi Desert en-route to Ulan Batoor and looking for the "Old Silk Road"

Lena Gladys --note the little motor boat hanging in davits foreward. Several scows tried this idea but it never really took off.
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New Zealand Scow-chinese-scow.jpg  New Zealand Scow-lena-gladys.jpg  
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  #69  
Old 03-02-2011, 11:05 PM
Stand Stand is offline
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I feel like I hit a jackpot.

Its been quite some time since I found so much quality Scow info in one spot.

Thank you!
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  #70  
Old 03-03-2011, 08:42 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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Here is the old "Kauri" one of the few "swim ended" scows built. I am getting out a few pics of the build of Ted Ashby.
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  #71  
Old 03-04-2011, 01:12 AM
sltak sltak is offline
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Thanks Rayman for your pictures and comments. Especially for your "history lesson" which is a delightful and informative overview of scows on the Northeast Coast. Very nicely written too, I really hope you have more of this. (Apart from the "Chinese" scow! I lived a few years in China and never saw one of those!) Please keep it going, this stuff from you is really good.
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  #72  
Old 03-04-2011, 01:14 AM
sltak sltak is offline
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In reply to Stand - referring to your comment on the other thread "Large Sailing Scow". You wrote: "My goal is to build a scow to live aboard. sltak I would like to see more pics of your scow and perhaps get a review of your likes and dislikes. Since you are the first person I've come across that is using a scow as a live aboard. I would greatly appreciate any assistance."

I wrote six pages. Can’t put all that here – email me at graemekenyon@vodafone.net.nz if you want.

Here is a summary:
What I like about my scow:
(1) Extreme shallow draft – can go into tidal estuaries and sit upright on a sheltered beach.
(2) Heavy displacement with very low immersion rate so can carry a lot of weight
(3) Simple shape so relatively easy and cheap to build and fit out the hull
(4) High initial stability, soft motion, dry in a seaway
(5) Sails and motors better then most people expect
(6) I like the look, character and integrity of a NZ scow, and for me it has heritage value

Words of caution if considering a scow like mine:
(7) Much accommodation space is lost due to large central centreboard case
(8) Flat bottom and upright on the ground makes it difficult to get underneath for cleaning and maintenance
(9) Stability range is not high, would not be self-righting if capsized
(10) Flat bottom means no proper bilge - difficult to drain for bilge pump or engine spillage
(11) Potentially cranky if too much water were to get on board (free surface effect), and hard to think of an easy way to get rid of the water if rolling around.
(12) Simple shapes with flat sections can be flimsy if not engineered properly.
(13) A bit awkward to handle in a confined space crowded with flash yachts.

I think you need to be clear if it is a scow you want, and you will live on board – or if it is a good live aboard boat you want – in which case you should consider all your requirements and then see if that leads you to a scow. I just wanted a scow. Now I happily live with its advantages and disadvantages and I really do love living on it. But as a houseboat it would be much better if it had no center board (then it wouldn’t be a NZ scow). As a cruising boat, it is good for passages in sheltered coastal waters, and can go places others can’t. But it is too much of a hassle for a quick afternoon sail, and doesn’t get sailed as much as it should (mind you, that is often the case for any live-aboard boat.)

In his last years Brian Donovan and some friends were planning a motorized houseboat based on the NZ scow hull. I have a drawing of the concept somewhere, which Brian and Eurico Charraz drew up. I think that would make a good live aboard houseboat, but of course it would not sail. I will see if I can find it.

I would love to expand on and discuss any of the above points and especially would appreciate the point of view of anyone with direct practical knowledge, eg Ray.
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  #73  
Old 03-04-2011, 07:54 PM
rayman rayman is offline
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Hi guys, a scow, or any barge-boat for that matter requires a fair degree of competence and sea-manship to handle in some situations. The ones I was involved with Alma-twin K3 Kelvins, 66hp -Ethel Wells, twin FR6 Listers-60hp-Jane Gifford twin 4LW gardners-45hp-Owhiti, twin Kelvins,1x44 and 1x66hp.
(disregard the comment by another poster about the mixed breeds)they were oddities because come launching time, that was what was available, so in they went. You can disregard all the nonsence about handed rotation props Most of them ran in their earlier days with just single screw. To be true to type the barndoor rudder must swing a full 90 degrees each way, this then gives you the "Kitchen" rudder effect, and gives amazing control, especially when loaded and handling in confined places. When "Ted Ashby" was building the book learned people in the marine department insisted that rudder stops be fitted at the theoretical steering 27degrees max. the result being that she has to steer on both engines at all times. When those old scows were built in the mangroves at Omaha there were no power tools, no nothing. The plans were in old Davy's head, they had a stringline, charcoal paste,plumbob, axes, adzes, and augers. Oh, I forgot the sawyers with their various saws. The reason they built up there was because that's where the best kauri timber grew, they took the plans to the trees. When Davy built his first scow"Una" he was just 24 but had learned the trade from his father and built her in the Miekeljohn upper yard. (his F.I.L.)
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  #74  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:52 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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Great and very excellent stuff, Rayman - but all this talk of motors - we want to know about SAILING them. Did you turn up too late for that experience?
Years ago, my German girlfriend and I were backpacking and diving around Great Barrier Island and met up with Jock McKinnen on the Rahiri at Tryphena; he was loading sheep, and a couple of cattle beasts and some manuka to go to Auckland ... and we asked him if we could hitch a ride, I offered him a crayfish ... and he really thought about it but finally said the authorities wouldn't allow him carry passengers. We ended up flying out on one of the Grumman amphibians. But there was no sail on the Rahirir, just a motor or two ... still, I would have enjoyed the experience. I also seagulled (non-registered waterside worker) on the the two motorised scows that loaded at Marsden wharf, general goods; the Owhiti and the Tiri (before she became the pirate radio station); they were considered the small tramps of the place; Tiri, I think, had a hold whereas Owhiti loaded on deck ... but it was good to work on them although we quickly filled them up and were out of a job again.
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  #75  
Old 03-06-2011, 05:02 AM
sltak sltak is offline
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Rayman: Brian D told me that you could put the rudder at 90 degrees across the propeller and reverse the prop wash, giving a crude reverse (sort of like the reverse on a Hamilton jet, I guess). I have never had to try it because I have a reverse box anyway. Could you describe the kitchen effect in a bit more detail? Thanks.
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