new round the world record

[gybeset]

Originally Posted by MikeJohns

Remember a forum is all about venturing an opinion, even starting a debate. I wanted people to consider that she is not the pioneer , just the latest in a long line , and a highly funded, team supported solo circumnav.

I am happy to say again it is still an impressive achievement !

I edited my last post to make clearer my reply to the idiot comment by "gybeset" in the days of Yore children (or close thereto) for example would not have been able to circumnavigate yet now they do so in comparative ease (compared with the days of yore).

Now on with the forum

In Australia we have a number of very capable women sailors who would have sold their souls for the opportunity. It seems large sponsorship deals tend to go elswhere.

If you want a golden record breaker what chance would you have if you were a Pakistani or say an Eritrean sailor ..... zilch

I feel she made the opportunity, from the times of her being 17yo and buying/sailing an old cheap boat in the Round Britain race

[K4s]

Originally Posted by sharpii2

I think he is saying that our entire lives are so dominated by money that everywhere we look, the pound, the dollar, the euro, seem to be the determining factor in the out come of EVERYTHING. I solute Ellen and her great accomplishment, but somehow it just does'nt inspire me the way the old pioneers did. Although it is true that yacht racing in the past was just as expensive back when as it is today, few people remember the great yachts men of yore in the way they remember Slocum, Pigeon, Dumas and Montesuir.
Why is that?
I have a theory.
Those four and their accomplishments seemed to imbue me with the 'I can do' spirit, where as Ellen and her peers tend to remind me of an 'expert class' that is unapproachable on its pedestal. Such an 'expert class' now dominates practically EVERY aspect of our lives. It seems that most of us have reached the point of being of being mere watchers rather than doers. Since most of us have no hope of EVER comming near their level of talent, luck, and accomplishment of these 'experts'. Everytime I think of them, the same six words come to mind: Ican't, I can't, I can't.
I can't match their talent (and that's a given).
I can't match their luck (being at the right place at the right time and being noticed by the RIGHT people).
And I probably can't even match their dedication.
In a world where pure competition is the highest value, Addicts and fanatics tend to rule.
Such a world can be rich in progress and achievement for some, but may, in its own way, be quite spiritually poor for everyone else.
In closing, I'll ask this one question:

Were Slocum, Pigeon, Dumas, and Montesuir the best sailors of their day?

I'll bet they weren't.

And maybe that's the BIG part of thier charm.

Bob

Or perhaps it has something to do with the numbers of people who are now attempting this adventure.In the OLDEN days only a few,youve mentioned probably 90% of them even attempted it,now as of TODAY there are approx 100 currently haveing ago.This doesnt include the 100s more who are cruising around and are unheralded to the general public.
Maybe the mere fact that so many(in comparison to times past)are living the adventure is the true reason that the charm is diminished.
k4s

[sharpii2]

On my 02 18 05 post, I never meant to disparage Ellen and her accomplishment.

Now I would like to clarify how I feel about her.

It seems that other than being a world class sailor, perhaps the best in her feild (long distance single handed races), she has at least one other talent. And that is that she appears to be an excellent judge of boats. She seems to choose boats that are very similar to the boats of her competitors so they look like the others. But there are usually notable differences. As far as mast support and rigging goes she seems to be very conservative. She will often pick a modern design but eschew rotating wing masts with deck level spreaders and their like. She will stick a conventional fixed mast and spreader rig in their place. She may go a little slower in the short term but probaly sees that the price to be paid for less worry and headaches down the line. And, by her record, It appears to be worth every 1/2kt paid. In short, she seems to be able to pick the technologies that are most relevent to her goals and least likely to cause her trouble down the line.
I imagine, in the days of Slocum, Pigeon, Dumas, and Montesiur, she would have fit right in.

She probably would have been one of them.

Bob

[K4s]

Disregarding a mishap it looks like the NEW RECORD will be chalked up in around 2 weeks time.
No mater what people think of Peyron,his crew and he are setting an amazingly high bar for the next challengers.
Already around the horn and heading for the finish.Over 2000 nm ahead of both Jules Verne and Abosolute records!
Go ORANGE Go
k4s

[K4s]

Orange2 hits a whale at 25-30 knots,damage to port dagger and rudder,boat not in danger,no leaks.Will have to stop and send a diver under the boat to check the damage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hope this isnt "the spanner in the works"
Go ORANGE Go
k4s

[brian eiland]

....a few more details courtesy scuttlebutteurope:

ORANGE II HITS A WHALE
Bruno Peyron called Race Headquarters this evening to announce that the
maxi-catamaran Orange II had just had a violent collision with a whale or
an orca whilst making between 25 and 30 knots off the Argentinian coast.
It was between 1700 and 1800 GMT, when the boat hit a big sea creature,
initially with the port daggerboard, then with the rudder. Contacted
shortly after 1900 GMT, Bruno Peyron confirmed this double impact, adding
that the boat was continuing on course downwind. The appendages do not
seem to be broken and all of them will be carefully tested in two days
time, as soon as the weather conditions enable the boat to be brought to a
stand still and a diver to be sent under the hull.

Contacted by telephone at 1935 GMT this evening, the skipper of Orange II
had the latest information on the incident: "The two successive impacts
were fairly severe. The first one involved the port daggerboard, then
just after a second impact with the rudder. The boat is not in danger.
There doesn't seem to be any leakage, but from the outside, you can see
that some bits of material have come away. There is a vibration coming
from the port rudder and for the time being we have the wind on the aft
quarter to keep the boat flat and not put pressure on the appendages.
We're going to have to slow down and then bring the boat to a stand still
as soon as we can, doubtless within the next 2 days, so as we can send one
of the crew down to inspect under the hull.

Aboard Orange II, the debate is on as to what decisions to make and when?
Bruno Peyron: "Remove and repair the rudder? ... possible but how will we
get it back on? Finish the record attempt with a single rudder? ...
possible but at a reduced pace! It's a shame that it's the port rudder
which was hit as 3/4 of the round the world is on port tack (with the
starboard rudder being more important than the other)... and the final
quarter of our voyage must be raced on starboard tack, that means with the
port rudder! ... "

http://www.catamaran-orange.com

[yipster]

and another around alone flyer is up and away http://www.globalflyer.com/MissionCo...king/index.jsp


i'll say geronimo

[boby boy]

shes great

[yipster]

with geronimo and chyenne out hitting debree from the recent tsunami its orange winning the vendee globe also breaking the jules verne record. vendee globe sails again in 2008.

You mean Orange is about to win the Jules Verne. The Vendee just ended-mono's only.
And the other multis were racing the "Oryz Quest and I think but I'm not positive that "Doha" and maybe one other boat are still in that race around the world..

[yipster]

yes, orange II speeds towards ushant and will finish tonight......
and steve fossett's cheyenne dismasted off the argentinian coast, sorry!

[K4s]

NEW RECORD.........BIG CHALLENGE BEEN SET.........Who's going after it i wonder

[Robert Miller]

This is a letter I wrote to Nick after I learned of his keel falling off, and his (thankfully) safe return to shore, and read Nick's comments in the Skandia newsletter that he needed a "new dream".

All of that caused me to think about the present state of yacht design and the high-tech, high-money, way ocean voyaging, racing, and record-setting are approached these days.

I know that there are many who will not agree, and I, for one, admire Nick and Ellen very much for their accomplishments. I cannot, however, avoid thinking that something has been lost since boats were required to be seaworthy, or seaworthy boats were the only choice an ocean voyager or racer would think to make. There were no shore teams making weather and other technical decisions. Self-sufficiency and resourcefulness were the tools of the sailor. Something has been lost.

Please do not misunderstand. I take nothing away from Ellen and Nick, and I followed them both very closely. But, if you think about it, is their accomplishment quite as inspiring as for example: those of the Hiscocks, Pardeys, Bernard Moitesssier, etc? ... and many others whose names we'll never hear.

I suggest a return to seaworthy boats, that belong at sea, and ocean races that depend completely on the self-sufficiency of the sailor and good wholesome design of the boat.

Keels don't fall off good boats.

What follows is a copy of my letter, and a reply from Helen King:

"Thanks Robert

I have passed on to all who may be interested, we shall see what happens *

Kind regards
*
Helen
hk@offshorechallenges.com"


> Dear friends:
>
> "We need to find our way again, we need another project, we need to
> dream."
>
> I was much struck by this line in the letter from Nick in the Skandia
> newsletter that arrived today.
>
> I was much inspired by Nick's journey, and followed things especially
> closely after the keel fell off. *Problem-solving, and resourcefulness,
> are the way of the sea. I am thankful that the ending is a happy one in
> this case.
>
> I followed Ellen with equal enthusiasm, and looked forward to her daily
> updates. *I must say she was a significant inspiration to my children
> and wife as well.
>
> Extraordinary people do extraordinary things.
>
> I have a bunch of thoughts regarding these boats, and races, and Nick's
> experiences. *While I am much impressed with the personal abilities of
> people like Nick and Ellen, I am definitely very concerned about the
> dependence on technology employed by both.
>
> Pure and simple, keels should not fall off boats.
>
> That it did, only speaks to the nonsense that yacht design has
> become... among the few.
>
> Additionally.... teams ashore, making the decisions regarding weather,
> and all things technical, flies in the face of the self sufficiency
> developed by most of those who choose to go to sea.
>
> As we speak, a very large number of people are sailing the world's
> oceans, many with children, most will never face a terrible emergency
> or failure. *Wasn't it Eric Hiscock who pointed out that if a voyage
> was uneventful, than it was a successful one? *The gods of the sea run
> for cover in the face of extreme designs like Open 60's. *(I would call
> them poor and unseaworthy designs.)
>
> Nick is looking for "the next dream"? I suggest the following. *Bring
> the dream home... for the many. *Build a wholesome boat, strong enough
> to keep its keel, deep enough to not broach in following heavy seas,
> simple rig to single hand and reef (so sail area can be large). Easy to
> heave-to in extreme conditions. *To hell with racing design rules that
> result in such extreme boats that their keels fall off. *How about a
> real boat? *Now that would be refreshing. *And that would be inspiring.
> And that might just begin a trend back toward sailboats that are
> actually seaworthy.
>
> And then... *sail this boat around the world. *Be completely
> self-sufficient. *Have a recording barometer, and thermometer for
> tracking currents, and a good log... and make your own weather
> decisions. And while we're at it, we could do away with GPS, if we
> wished, and use celestial... (this last recommendation is something
> that needs consideration).
>
> Imagine a fully self-sufficient circumnavigation (no "shore team"), in
> a truly seaworthy boat *(one that actually belongs at sea), that is
> uneventful in all respects. *UNEVENTFUL. *A true seaman carries out
> voyages that are uneventful. *Remember? **Or is that really
> disappearing?
>
> But with Nick's obvious seamanship, do it faster and better than anyone
> else. *And, I assure you, that accomplishment will be of far greater
> inspiration to the many than the stuff going on now. *It will inspire
> others to learn and to sail the oceans.... uneventfully, and well! *And
> will capture the interest and imagination of all of us.
>
> Now that would be a challenge worth taking on, don't you think? *Like
> Nick said, "we need to dream".
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Thoughtfully, and with best regards,
> Robert E. Miller
> millersail@cox.net
>

[D'ARTOIS]

Robert, actually I agree fully with what you wrote. However we do not live anymore in the Bernard Moitessier era - that's over and final. Nonetheless the reputation of Slocum, Moitessier, Gerbault, Juan Baader et. al remained unspoiled along all those years and I firmly believe that all of us like their adventures from the past.

In a year or so, another one is going to brake Ellen Mc Arthur's record and in a few years time her name will be forgotten just like Clare Francis' and Isabelle Autissier, the French girl that had to be saved by the Australian Navy and: No thanks to the Australian Government issueing a frigate to rescue her from her helter-skelter.

In that respect Robert, you are right. Moitessier was not "sponsored" - he did what he did in his own capacities.

No individual - save for the extremely riches - can go for a world record on own behalf.

And that makes the recordbrakers in fact unsignificant because some company with a bit more money on the balance can make it possible for any accomplished sailor to go for another record.

The kitchen manufacturer had a few days of glory - (not their clients)
Miss Mc Arthur even so.

In a year or so, another recordbraker comes.......and everything about the
effort of Miss Mc Arthur is forgotten.

Lot's of money through the drain that had better been used to improve the company's overall efforts.

No, Moitessier will not be forgotten......

[dionysis]

"Wholesome and seaworthy" designs will not get you around the world in 80 days. They may get you around 80 times though.