New project need help.

[deepdwn8]

Hi all,

My name is Dan Danvers, im a high school student in Florida. My friend and I have been pondering a sailboat project for years now and finally in our drafting/design class we got a break to finally put our ideas together.

We've come out with a design that slightly resembles the Nokia 18ft Skiff and other skiffs like them, (the laser 49er to be exact). I've drawn basic plans for the boat being sure to keep everything symmetrical especially because i know I'm using the wrong software (auto CAD architectural desktop).

other than having the dream of building and sailing a boat of our own design we have almost no clue what to do next. Personally I'm interested in graduating college and going into the field of yacht design. So this project is very serious to me.

Any help would be appreciated.
Thank you
-Dan Danvers

[Stumble]

If the project is about building a boat I would highly advice building a small, relatively simple boat with pre-made plans. This will give you a grounding in what exacally you will need to expect for a more complicated design, particularly pointing out where you are likely to run into problems on a future build.

If the project is to design your own boat, then build it. I would recommend you build a small, relatively simple boat with pre-made plans. Ya, I know it is the same advice, but the theory still holds. Starting with both designing and building a boat is a huge undertaking, plus since you will be the first to ever build it there is noone available to help you when (not if) you run into problems.

I would look around for a sailing scow design that would at least allow you to build a fast planing hull (not as fast as the 49er though) so when you are done you have a boat that you will want to sail.

[deepdwn8]

Do you have any companies that you know of. or hull designs that i could search to find planing hull plans.

The design part of the project was to get my feet a little wet in the field, and i loved it, so im going to start working towards it.

My friend and I have done many hours of work on his family's 32 ft powerboat, including fiberglass work, electrical and other things. as far as the design elements go in the design for further reference is there specifics of position of the mast and dagger board? Or do you know of any books i could obtain to read and start studying?

Thanks again
-Dan Danvers

[Gilbert]

If you are definitely going to build it you can just draw it on the loft floor. You will just be skipping the part where you draw up the plans. Plans are not absolutely necessary when you are the builder and you are designing a rather small boat like this.
You did ask what the next step is. This is my suggestion.

[Gilbert]

We posted replies almost simultaneously, so I will respond again.
Why don't you consider building a Geary 18' flattie, especially if there are other flattie sailors in your area. It is a great class and a very good sailer and simple to build, to boot.

[Stumble]

Do a google search for small sailboat designs and you will be inundated with options. I would really look for a boat that if fast, and relatively easy to build, with a minimum amount of parts. I hesitate to make any particular suggestions since there are a huge variety of designs out there, but many of the scow plans are cheap, and the boats are pretty easy to build. Plus a scow class is going to be fast, and can get a portsmouth rating if there isn't a class nearby.

[gggGuest]

Take a good look at the tech support resources here...
http://www.uk-cherub.org

[deepdwn8]

although i live in Florida wich is in the states, this design seems more simple than the one i created which i will include in my post when i get home from school.

Is it a kit boat? or would i have to buy it new?

The other thing is and i'm considdering all options, I'm keen on a self-bailing hull design, much like the modern open 60's and other boats like that.

Money is definatly an option and my friend and I are running on a shoe string budget.


Thank you all
-Dan Danvers

[Stumble]

http://www.unclejohns.com/skiff/
http://sailing.about.com/gi/dynamic/...astSailrs.html
http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans.htm
http://www.instantboats.com/index.html

All have some low cost or free plans. Just look for one you think you can tackle with a bill of goods you can afford. Remember that the mast and sailing equipment will likely be the most expensive parts you will need to buy. So if you can scrounge old stuff from a laser or Flying Scott graveyard you might be able to save some money.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by deepdwn8

although i live in Florida wich is in the states, this design seems more simple than the one i created which i will include in my post when i get home from school.

Is it a kit boat? or would i have to buy it new?

The other thing is and i'm considdering all options, I'm keen on a self-bailing hull design, much like the modern open 60's and other boats like that.

Money is definatly an option and my friend and I are running on a shoe string budget.


Thank you all
-Dan Danvers

Building a competitive Cherub is not a first build project, nor is it cheap. I'd think of something far simpler and first-build (and wallet) friendly.

Stitch & tape plywood designs are the easiest place to start - consider the Paperjet from Dudley Dix Designs. (http://www.dixdesign.com/paperjet.htm) or Eric McNicholl's Quetzal design (http://www.veloxdesign.net). Both are much simpler builds, do not use exotic materials or advanced techniques and are relatively inexpensive to get on the water. Both have enough performance to blow you socks off.

Funny, the Nokia 18' skiff you are talking about (from the Ronstan videos) was at my club here in Canada for the last few years. It's pretty dated now, but has moved on to Annapolis, Maryland.

--
Bill

[gggGuest]

Originally Posted by bistros

Building a competitive Cherub is not a first build project,

Actually it happens fairly regularly over here and its a damn sight easier and simpler to get a good result than messing round with stitch and glue. Since foam sandwich became widely used started I think 5 UK Championships have been won by first build boats.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

Actually it happens fairly regularly over here and its a damn sight easier and simpler to get a good result than messing round with stitch and glue. Since foam sandwich became widely used started I think 5 UK Championships have been won by first build boats.

With the built-in support system and class association behind you in the UK I'd agree. Considering North America isn't exactly a dinghy building paradise, and support is limited to Internet posts, I'd beg to differ. There isn't a lot of people here willing to share vacuum bagging equipment, molds, composite expertise and hands-on time.

I watched a stitch & glue skiff (Quetzal) go together in four weeks this year, from flat panels to well finished boat. Thousands of Mirror dingies were built with this technique. The Mirror turned around the UK sailing scene 50-some years ago and opened up sailing to the masses in a way not duplicated since.

It's much easier to build a boat like a Cherub with a community of great folks behind you than it is to do so in isolation. Unfortunately there are (almost) no Cherubs here to sail with (or B14s, or Laser 4000, or RS800, or whatever). Basically, performance sailing here is about at the same stage things were 20 years ago in the UK.

Much as I wish the average skill set here were good enough to have folks turning out vacuum bagged, foam cored carbon & kevlar hulls from garages that could win nationals, I just can't see it happening for a first timer here. No molds, no easily accessed mentors and no local industry to leverage.

--
Bill

[gggGuest]

You don't need vacuum bagging and moulds. Wet layup and a jig made from battens and cheap blockboard is plenty good enough.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by gggGuest

You don't need vacuum bagging and moulds. Wet layup and a jig made from battens and cheap blockboard is plenty good enough.

You seem to miss my point in almost Marie Antoinette-esque "Let them eat cake" fashion. The UK and your performance dinghy sailing community is rich in knowledge, resources, competition, technical savvy and friendliness. You live in an abundance of riches, and may not be aware that things are not quite the same elsewhere.

I'd be willing to wager the original poster has never sailed on a modern performance boat like a Cherub, B14, RS800, I-14 or 49er.

I would love for the original poster to build a stunning Cherub in Florida while in secondary school. Budget? About $6.5-10,000 (3-5K pounds sterling) US build budget for a complete boat with carbon spars, rack tubing, laminate sails etc.

I just don't see it happening here, but I wish it would.

--
Bill

[deepdwn8]

I have sailed on a laser 49er, but it wasnt for racing. however I understand what your saying about the community. all i have behind me is two dedicated families; a best friend his dad (works for MAN diesels) his mom (Marine technician) a bunch of guys down in Miami who work on the mega-yachts, and hopefully i'll get to meet many new people in the field while doing this project...
funny enough the two families that want to build the boat (my family and my friend's family) are from England and Germany. perhaps its both my friend and I's maritime background or just our lust for a learning adventure that is making us want to build this boat, I'd like to think that me and him will benefit from whatever.

Thank you Bistros, the paper jet is exactly what i was looking for and with a little bit of work and saving money i think my build team will be able to afford it.