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  #16  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:42 AM
The Q The Q is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Aeronamics video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjRtUI5TWhI See post 13
Did I miss something or did I not see any video of that Boat flying? Bows Up yes, DSS seemingly deployed but no flight.

Heres a question what do the rules say if you have a collision with someones DSS blades but you can't see them because they are below the water line?
How would they be of use in racing like this?
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/pho...yandy96543.jpg
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2016, 08:48 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Aeronamics

Not a good video, in my opinion-but very close to flying a couple of times. The foils would probably be able to be seen-they're bright orange!*
The Q23 has a "skimming" mode and flying mode. And this boat does too. I imagine the video was taken in "skimming" mode.....

* Q-your picture shows very light air. In that case the foils on the 14 and Q23 would likely be retracted because they do not develop the lateral resistance for the boat. Both boats using Welbourn foils use either a keel or a daggerboard for lateral resistance. This is one of the unique aspects of these foils since most other hydrofoils combine lateral resistance and vertical lift in the same foil.

Two Q23's sailing in light air with their lifting foils retracted:

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Last edited by Doug Lord : 07-05-2016 at 11:44 AM.
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2016, 11:02 PM
OzFred OzFred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Q View Post
Heres a question what do the rules say if you have a collision with someones DSS blades but you can't see them because they are below the water line?
The rules make no distinction between boats of different configurations nor allowance for visibility. The foils are part of the boat, so must be allowed for when required to give room.

Quote:
How would they be of use in racing like this?
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/pho...yandy96543.jpg
Absolutely none. Anyone who had outward facing foils deployed in such conditions is just asking for trouble, and likely an opponent could take great advantage of the hugely increased beam, e.g. luffing a boat overtaking close to windward, you only need to get close and they'd have to tack away to avoid a collision. So they wouldn't be deployed in that case.
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  #19  
Old 07-05-2016, 05:12 AM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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Originally Posted by OzFred View Post
The rules make no distinction between boats of different configurations nor allowance for visibility. The foils are part of the boat, so must be allowed for when required to give room.
Is there an appeal to that effect?

If I stuck a 6m carbon rod, say one of the very skinny ones used for building model planes, off the front of my bow in a race in poor visibility, or in other conditions where it could neither be seen nor expected, it would be surprising if the port tackers got pinged by the protest committee.

We had something similar happen in an overnighter once. We started off in daylight and light winds. After dark, we had a close cross on one of the faster boats that was finally overtaking us and they started screaming. It turned out that when going upwind in significant waves (which we didn't have at the start) they extended their black carbon fibre bowsprit so that it's wider base section sealed the socket it came out of in the bow, so they could stop the socket leaking as waves came over the bow. Somehow we were expected to know that their boat had suddenly grown by almost 25% of its LOA.

To be honest, I think an appeals committee would be wary of creating a precedent that said that people had to be aware of what could not be seen.
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  #20  
Old 07-05-2016, 05:15 AM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Not a good video, in my opinion-but very close to flying a couple of times. The foils would probably be able to be seen-they're bright orange!.
You may not be able to see bright orange foils on my lake, and that's not unusual.
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  #21  
Old 07-05-2016, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT249 View Post
Is there an appeal to that effect?
I fear you're stretching things a bit CT. The question would surely have to be whether there's an appeal or anything else that means the rules in their normal obvious sense of contact is contact don't apply.

Case 91 says
"A boat required to keep clear must keep clear of another boat’s equipment out of its normal position when the equipment has been out of its normal position long enough for the equipment to have been seen and avoided."

Case 77 says
"Contact with a mark by a boat’s equipment constitutes touching it. A boat obligated to keep clear does not break a rule when touched by a right-of-way boat’s equipment that moves unexpectedly out of normal position."

It seems to me there's an assumption in there that you are expected to know what normal position for your opponents' equipment is, and there's only a get out if something moves out of position.

If boats with underwater equipment that is invisible in normal position became at all significant in numbers I think we'd need a new case. Although those images on the face of it look horrendous, I also note that the foil of a windward heeled Moth would seem perfectly placed to slice the bottom out of an unsuspecting leeward boat, but I haven't heard of it happening.
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  #22  
Old 07-05-2016, 02:45 PM
The Q The Q is offline
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Though not relevant to foils, one of the fleets of Yeoman and Kinsman in the UK was having problems because they shared the water with a fleet of catamarans. Because of the small windows in our sails they could not see them coming and on a windy (and therefore fast day) they could not here the hails of Starboard in time.

The only solution was too double the maximum size of window.

I've a feeling if DSS equipped boats were to share race / waters with different boats some sort of warning would have to be shown if the DSS was deployed.
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  #23  
Old 07-25-2016, 02:52 PM
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Flo 1

Aeronamics has named their new boat the "Flo 1":

From their website today:

Concept
The decision to design and build the Flo1 was made when Aeronamics founder Jurian Rademaker noticed that among sailors in his network, there is a demand for an easy way to experience foiling. “We asked our sailing friends how they like to sail a hydrofoiler and what is important to them. Simplicity, durability and speed were the answers we received.” And so a boat was designed around those criteria.

Boat tech details
The boat is now in its final testing phase and is soon production-ready. It is a 4.25 m hydrofoiling sailing dinghy. In experienced hands the Flo1 will be able to reach speeds of over 20 knots. However, the goal of the boat is not speed but easy foiling, which is possible thanks to its self-stabilizing character. In windspeeds of 6-8 knots the boat will take off and sail on het foils. Thanks to the integrated DSS system, the boat is manageable for the club sailor.
DSS
The first two prototypes were fast, but did not comply with the goal of making foiling available to a larger group of sailors. To achieve this, Aeronamics enlisted the help of naval architect Hugh Welbourn, the creator of the patented Dynamic Stability Systems (DSS). DSS-technology makes a boat sail naturally stable. The technology has previously proven its value in designs of Infiniti Yachts and Quant Boats. After initial contact with Welbourn, the third and last Aeronamics prototype was equipped with DSS-foils. The technology appeared to be the perfect fit for the boat, because of its natural foiling balance without active controls.
Aeronamics will start production in Q1 of 2017. Build slots can be reserved on the company website. Training, a mobile tuning app and a ‘how-to-manual’ are part of the package.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Interesting, especially the foils: http://aeronamics.com/

LOA 4.25m/13.9'
Beam-1.8m/5.9'
Beam-leeward foil deployed: 3.2m/10.5'
weight, all up: 55kg/121lb
Takeoff 6kts true wind
target: 8000euro intro price(about $9100)

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  #24  
Old 08-23-2016, 10:38 AM
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Flo1 Flying

Great picture of the boat at another stage of development:

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Last edited by Doug Lord : 08-24-2016 at 08:42 PM.
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  #25  
Old 08-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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Foiling Kiteboards

These should be mentioned here because they are the fastest growing segment of foiling under sail. No way to single out one brand but as a group they continue to set records.
For more on foiling kites see this thread: Kite Board Foiler Design
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  #26  
Old 09-04-2016, 04:34 PM
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Foiling Cherub

More(see post 9) of the Foiling Cherub: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toRQ...ature=youtu.be --posted by "makerofthings" on DA:
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2016, 10:44 AM
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Orca

This new foiler looks like a Moth but isn't. It appears to be about 15' LOA and has exceptional carbon work including molded wings. Designed and built by TrisDesign and The Carbon Surgeons in Switzerland. https://www.facebook.com/trisdesignyachts/

Pictures by Antonio Latini





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  #28  
Old 10-15-2016, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myszek View Post
At least

Doesn't it look like this:
Attachment 107159
(by Doug, 2011,
Dinghy Design: Open 60 influence? )

or, even more, like that:
Attachment 107160
(by myself, 2013,
New Technology:Quant 30-Twin DSS Foil Equipped Keelboat )



The layout, with the enormous wings, seems to fit a bigger, ocean-going boat as well as the small dinghy...

regards

krzys
Here is something I posted in 2007. The similarity is uncanny. Look to post #9.

Sailing Sci-Fi

myszek


myself
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  #29  
Old 10-15-2016, 05:05 PM
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Cool! That was about the time Hugh Welbourn was well along on his DSS system. Seems a lot of people were thinking along similar lines back then.
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  #30  
Old 11-19-2016, 03:22 PM
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History Speaks

Just re-discovered this historic thread. Late in the thread the prediction was made by several people how the introduction of foiling in the Moth Class was going to kill the class. Some of the comments are downright hilarious!
Sailing Dinghy Design
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