New High Performance Monofoilers

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

The foiling 49er has finally flown under sail! More coming up....

You just don't get it Doug. Once non-class association approved foils are installed to make it foil, it is NOT A 49er any more. The class association of owners democratically decide what is, and what is not a 49er.

Part of the "deal" in getting the world to invest in a one-design class is that the people who pay the money get to decide future directions. Just like the A-Class cats rejected foiling and the R-Class accepted it.

From what I've read, they've opted for front foil steering and have really changed the basic 49er into something very new and very different. It is great that the Bethwaites are playing with foiling, and they chose a 49er hull blank as their canvas - but it is NOT a 49er. Get it?

--
Bill

Hows this: The "not a 49er" Bethwaite designed foiler using a Bethwaite designed 49er hull has just flown.
Comments he has made to me indicate he may not even be considering production of this boat as a "round the course" racing boat. We'll see....

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Hows this: The "not a 49er" Bethwaite designed foiler using a Bethwaite designed 49er hull has just flown.
Comments he has made to me indicate he may not even be considering production of this boat as a "round the course" racing boat. We'll see....

Doug, this is one of the most rational posts you have ever made! It is important to keep the information you distribute and disseminate accurate. Loudly proclaiming news about a "Bethwaite Foiling 49er" gives the distinct impression that this is a sanctioned, democratically-approved development that could affect (crush?) the millions of dollars invested in 49er racing, club level all the way to the Olympics. Making sure people understand this is a one-off project by the Bethwaites, with no class association approval keeps things in perspective.

No one knows what the Bethwaites intend with this project as far as I know. I suspect that much like Frank's HSP projects it may be the first quasi-public step into a future foiler which would probably be bespoke designed for the purpose. There is very little evidence either Julian or Frank build Frankenstein-style boats based on existing ideas when they decide to get serious. I would expect a Bethwaite foiler to incorporate a rig designed for the foiling application, it's high speeds and need for reduced drag. Either the old or new 49er rigs are not optimal for the foiling application.

Again, thank you for the simple, rational response!

--
Bill

49er hull,49er rig=foiling 49er:
(pix by skiffman on SA)

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

49er hull,49er rig=foiling 49er:
(pix by skiffman on SA)

Your rationality lasted one post. No surprise there.

This is NOT a 49er.

There is no way you could deny that the boat in the picture is a foiling 49er.
That is, it is a 49er hull with a 49er rig flying on foils designed by the designer of the boat. It is an experiment and is no threat to the 49er class-get over it!
---
Is this a Foiling I-14? I guess you'd agree the other boat is a Foiling 18, wouldn't you?

[Boston]

Dam we have the dorkiest fights around here
we do the same thing over on the climate thread

From Julian Bethwaite on SA:
"Hi Guys, that was our second outing, probably up 25% of the time, first outing we where only up 10% of the time, maybe because the skipper (me) was 20+kgs heavier than Nathan (Outridge, present 49er WC) who is steering in these shots with my son Harry in the beak both times.

Harry steered also, think we may have got the highest speed with Harry steering, 2 sail reaching (there is a spin on board but you over run it way to fast and its a 49er sport (flat) spin.

Wind speed was mostly 10-12 knts, and we had a peak speed of 21knts (velocitek) averaged over 2 secs, lots of 20+s so we are pretty happy. On the first sail max speed was 16.7 in approx 14 knts of wind.

Lot of little things to do, may make a new front array, but its working far better than we had hoped at this stage.

Unlikely to go sailing/foiling again till after Easter, boat is being stripped down again ( approx 1 hr work) into a "real" 49er so Harry can train for Garda.

BTW, the rudder in the back, is just so we can get in and out of the mooring here at Woollahra, its removed as soon as we get free! As our confidence grows, we will despense completely with the old rudder or may a short stub rudder just when the boat pitches heavily nose up, may be nice at 25 knts to have some steering apparatus in the water. Lots of potential nose pitch downs, (nose dives) but its as safe as houses, you dont worry about it.

This, BTW, is a extrodinary succcess for Dad, who did 75% of this, by this, I mean make the arrays and wet sand the foils, huge effort. We will get him on the beast in a month or so, when we have better control! Not bad for a old bugger who turns 89 in a month.

He deserves the credit mor ethan anyone. Im a lucky boy,

Julian"

New pix from the front page of SA:
Also shown-Clive Everests foiler with electronic foil control and twin daggerboards in a "conventional" configuration:
----------------------
update: comment by Julian today on SA about the foiling 49er"
" Bora is correct re steering System, in fact we end up with poor steering because we underestimated the loads on horn.

The pitch is very stable.

Way to early to comment further, there is simply way to much to learn, next sail is likely to be Thursday.

JB "

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

New pix from the front page of SA:
Also shown-Clive Everests foiler with electronic foil control and twin daggerboards in a "conventional" configuration:

Where are the photos of the boat you keep saying you are builing? Where are the technical drawings of it that you claimed you were going to show us last month? What's up, couldn't con anyone into doing the work for you?

[booster]

Hi!

This is a very interesting foiler. Has the design been developed further?

Regards,
Booster

[sigurd]

Hi booster -

Which one do you refer to?

Dlord: What is a "horn"?

[booster]

Sigurd!
I am referring to the design by Julian Bethwaite. The 49er with foils added. It was said to have been tow-tested. There is a lot of posts on the subject here. Perhaps I have missed some information. If one acually sailed it, it must have been more complicated compared to, for instance a Moth with foils?
Regards,
Booster

Booster, the foiling 49er has been sailed and continues to be developed-over 20 knots first few times out.
-----
Sigurd, I think what Julian was referring to in that PM was a control "horn": a piece attached to the rudder extending out from the rudder a bit where the control pushrod(or control lines) is/are then attached.

[booster]

Thanks Doug!
It will be interesting to follow the development of this foiler.
Regards,
Booster