New Design for a 17' Daysailer/Racer

Brett, I apologize; I should have said read post #1 and post #12 where traps are ruled out.
"Customer Quote": I don't want to sail a slow boat" Customer Quote":If you could design and engineer a canting keel so that it was simple and reliable-and had enough weight to make a difference- then it seems like that might be one way to increase RM WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO TRAPS OR BARS".(my capitals) No bars? What a drag!-just kidding.
He wants an easy to sail(for two people),high performance keel boat. The canting keel gives it to him...

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by BrettM

Doug,

What Customer? Have you taken a deposit for something? Perhaps you want to share some drawings/numbers of your design?

On this size range boat, where the bulb weight in near to that of a moveable crew member it it simply does not pay its way. On a larger yacht or perhaps a radio controlled "toy" the tables are probably turned.

Unless one has a predetermined mindset, financial interest or loads of money to waste it is the wrong choice/reccomendation in this instance - period.

I sail a high performance sports yacht and can not see how it is such a good idea. I'm not biased, I'm merely selling fact. I'll let some others jump in and comment.

Brett

You're wasting your breath. There will never be any answers to real questions. There will simply be the same hyperbole repeated over and over again.

On the other hand, I propose Cleve use my K-Rig (TM) for his boat. Scratch that, I think everyone should use my K-Rig (TM) on all future designs. It will revolutionize sailing. Engineered correctly it will allow any boat to have a mast twice as tall as all others of the type. Imagine the extra horespower you will have, all controlled electromechanically, making it the best boat ever! I'm sure you can run the numbers and see that a mast twice as tall will make any boat so much faster. There is no denying it!

Of course anyone who actually figures out HOW to make this rig work will have to pay me a royalty because I am patenting the idea of the K-Rig (TM), even though I can't figure it out myself.

Now wait 4 hours and I'll post again about how great the K-Rig is.

[BrettM]

Doug, This conversation is going nowhere. I presented the numbers to show that a canted keel could provide similar additional righting moments to some other more conventional methods in this instance.

As I read your quotes I see a "customer" that has considered the merits of your system as he should, but not one who has a distinct aversion to any one system. In fact, I see a person who wants a simple, quick small dinghy/sportsboat. Any addition of canting keels, trapezes and the like are a extension of that and should be considered on a cost/performance/simplicity/construction/user preference comparison individually.

The people you really need to convince are the sportsboat/dinghy sailors of which I am one. You haven't convinced me and as such I won't be building a canting keel for my sportsboat.

Win some lose some......
But first read post #79 where the customer specifically rules out trapezes:"... I'm at the point now where I don't want to use a trapeze..."
Brett, I didn't know you were considering a canting keel on your "sportboat" but I really wasn't trying to convince you of the merits of such a system on your boat since I don't even know what it is and I tend not to like retrofits a whole lot anyway.
What I was trying to do is show that a canting keel fits the bill on this particular boat because of the specific requirements of the customer. Your RM analysis proved the point I had been making since early on: that the idea will work by providing a lighter boat than a three person boat with almost equivalent righting moment.
Again, if you go by what the customer wants there is only one choice....

[Paul B]

Not quite what was asked for, too much of a dinghy (scow actually).

http://www.melges.com/17melges.html

The fools forgot to include the canting keel! You would think the desingers of this boat would have been intelligent enough to add it, seeing as how they are the same people who have done most work in the recent canting maxis.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by BrettM

In fact, I see a person who wants a simple, quick small dinghy/sportsboat. Any addition of canting keels, trapezes and the like are a extension of that and should be considered on a cost/performance/simplicity/construction/user preference comparison individually.

Couldn't Cleve simply get the wife to wear a Lead Head (TM) Ballast Helmet? Can you run the numbers using the 30kg "Missus" version, as well as the 50 kg "Oz Boy" version, as well as a combination of both?

This is simply the best solution in cost, performance, simplicity, and construction to the stability problem. That "user preference" thing might be a sticking point though.