need sugestion on a sailboat..

[tlopes]

Hi,

I'm new in boat building, but I have a expert friend that is going to help me a lot.

I need to choose or design a sailboat that fit my needs:
50 % Just sailing with friends,
30 % Regata,
20 % one week sailing off shore (4 adults)

I need it to be trailabel (my car can pull up to 1400 Kg, and the max wide allowed is 2.55 m, and to make it easier to put it on the trailer it would be great to have an ajustable keel.

thunderbird (24" or 26") ? Very fast but the cabin is to small.

KRALYA 630 ? - I like it very much but the cabin it's very low. (see it at http://www.stugna.kiev.ua try to translate with http://www.wanadoo.fr/bin/frame2.cgi...ls.wanadoo.fr/ )

Also take a look at the PILGRIM 590, and the SB - 26. (same site as the KRALYA 630).

Some are to small, some are to slow.

Any sugestions would be very well come.

Thank's

TLopes

[gonzo]

I suggest you sail different boats. It is easier to decide and evaluate a design when it is built.

[PAR]

Bingo Gonzo, (though hate to admit it)

I've found the more experience a soul has the more defined their idea of the perfect what ever is.

Some want comfort, other's speed, inexperienced want both.

Get out there and find out what you NEED and DESIRE.

Personally, I'm getting old and don't care much for the on your ear stuff much anymore. I want to have a beer and know I'm keeping a fine, steady course. If I spill my beer, it's a bad boat. If my woman spills her beer is a rotten boat.

The most fun in life is finding out what you want. Decide what this is, and enjoy your life (it's short) Being at one with the things we create or take to sea is the noblest of causes. Little else matters . . .

[Stephen Ditmore]

I rather like the smallest of the Ferrier trimarans, the F-24. Now that Ferrier and Corsair have split I'm not sure which is handling that design. There's also the Newick designed Tremelino and MaineCat. In monohulls this is a tough size in which to balance accomodations and performance. If you have a big SUV to tow with you might consider picking up a Hobie 33. The original J/27 is a bit tender, but might be nice if you get sails cut flat, and is designed to the 8'-6" max trailerable beam.

[dougfrolich]

Contact Tom Wylie and see if the 30 could be fit with a lifting keel.
I am sure it could be done in an efficient manor.

[tspeer]

Originally posted by Stephen Ditmore
I rather like the smallest of the Ferrier trimarans, the F-24. Now that Ferrier and Corsair have split I'm not sure which is handling that design. ...

Corsair is still building the Farrier designed F-24 Mk II, AFAIK. There are also lots of used MK I's and MK II's on the market. Farrier also sells plans for the F-25 and F-25C (Carbon). Several F-25's have been built in limited production, but not by Corsair. Ian Farrier is legendary for his detailed plans and the support he gives to home builders.

I really like our F-24 MkI. It's a great boat for a couple or a couple + 1 - 2 children. The cockpit holds 4 adults, but if you want to sleep 4, they better be very friendly. Easy to single-hand, good performance, great handling, and can be trailered or dry-sailed. It's not capable of handling true off-shore conditions, but it's good for coastal cruising. Shallow water is no problem and the boat can be beached. Motoring, I get 2.5nm/liter at 5 kt. The Farrier folding system adds tremendous flexibility to the boat - you can easily fold down to monohull beam on the water, and many times that has made the difference between staying in a marina or having to anchor out. And you can trail to where you want to sail and be in the water in less than an hour.

If you have 4 adults, you'd want to look at the F-27 or F-28. The aft cabin on the F-27 even gives each couple a modicum of privacy. There are lots of good deals these days on used F-27's, and they have the most active one-design racing fleets. The F-31 is getting beyond your tow capacity, and you'd want to get some mulithull experience before getting into the bigger tri's - they can be pretty powerful.

The Farrier/Corsair tri's are expensive for the size of the boat, but they hold their value really well so the net cost of sailing is comparable to lesser craft if you can swing the initial purchase. And on a cost/knot basis they can't be beat! The ability to keep the boat at home or at least out of the water significantly lowers the operating cost. The shallow draft often means you can use inside slips that are otherwise unuseable and possibly get a discount on moorage.

[betelgeuserdude]

I have to agree with Tom. Moorage is getting more expensive, everywhere. Speed is fun and safe. Why spend gobs of money making a slow mono faster, if a production F-24 or F-27 will still vastly outperform? I've known several folks (w/ families) out cruising aboard Farrier tris. They've always left me (behind) envious as hell.

DC

[Andy]

Check out the Dudley Dix designed Didi 26. At least one boat has been modified with higher freeboard for cruising. The boat is fast, trailable (lifting keel) and home buildable. I'm sure you could make some mods to make it offshore capable, although it already looks almost as good as it will get for a displacement of 1400kg. Perhaps you could add water ballast tanks at the lowest point in the hull, add a stern extension (the boat will float a bit lower with the ballast) and perhaps raise the coachroof a little? Consult the designer on all this, though - extra ballast has been known to make light boats nosedive...

http://www.dixdesign.com/26didi.htm

Andy

[Stephen Ditmore]

How 'bout an Elliot 770?
http://www.mindspring.com/~todd.cope...elliott770.htm

[tspeer]

If you really want to build, then build because you want to. But don't build because you want to sail - you can find used boats cheaper than you can build one and be sailing now instead of a few years from now.

Proabably the best thing to do is to see what is most popular with people that sail in your area, and buy a used example. Then you will have a boat that suits your area and has a ready market when you want to sell it. Plus you will get more enjoyment by having others around that sail the same thing, whether you are cruising or racing.

[tlopes]

I have been looking to all sugestions, every one seems to be quit good.

The trimarans F-24 seems to be great, but a trimaran is not the best thing to sail with a small angle agaist the wind (30º-35º) which is needed in my area (Lisbon), in our river (Tagus) and the main wind...

Other great option is the Didi 26, but it might be to heavy...

The eliot 770, seems to be nice, I have to find more info about it, weight, size, fotos from inside, etc...

Thank's for all these reply's.

tspeer: The second hand market where I live is more a four hand market, I have seen one or two boats that needed some work.
It's an option.

Merry Christmas!
And a happy new year!

Tlopes
Tlopes

[tspeer]

I think you'll find the F-boats to be every bit as close-winded as any racer/cruiser monohull of comparable size. The old notion that multihulls can't go upwind well is just that - old. It may have applied to the first generation of cruising mulithulls that had lots of windage and used V-shaped hulls for lateral resistance. But it doesn't apply to the modern boats with their reduced windage topsides and deep daggerboards.

One of the really fun aspects of sailing an F-boat is to start out behind and to leeward of a bigger monohull, and just climb right up through their lee, crossing ahead of them as you sail higher and faster.

The other thing to consider when sailing on a river is higher speeds reduce the effect of current. That can make a big difference when trying to penetrate up-river.

[Alik]

Hi, KRALYA630 and PILGRIM59 are our designs. I can also recommend You KAVALIER800 - 8m LOA trailerable plywood boat. See photos here:
http://oxta.ru/index.php?menuid=1&detailed=35.
This design is also freeware.

Best regards,
Albert Nazarov