Need small sailboat plans with CAD files

[GEDaggett]

Hey Guys,

I am looking for boat plans for a 11 to 14 ft sloop or Cat rigged boat that comes with cad files. Please let me know if you know where they can be purchased.

Thanks

Gary

[bistros]

Originally Posted by GEDaggett

Hey Guys,

I am looking for boat plans for a 11 to 14 ft sloop or Cat rigged boat that comes with cad files. Please let me know if you know where they can be purchased.

Thanks

Gary

There are literally thousands available. Your situation is like standing in the middle of a tulip field in Belgium and asking for help choosing a flower.

You would have better success if you defined your request better:

- recreational sailing?
- racing?
- stable, comfortable?
- fast, unstable?
- single hand, two up, family?
- build in foam sandwich, strip plank, carvel, clinker, stitch & tape?
- for experienced builder? Learning project for new builder?

You get the idea, tell us more about you and what you want and you'll get better results.

[GEDaggett]

I am looking for stitch and tape (plywood with glass & Epoxy). I am looking something recreational I can put two or three adults in. I also would like something that has room for modification to plans(such as adding storage lockers, transom motor mount, general flexible design as I will most likely tweek it quite a bit. I live in Chicago so something that would be stable for day sails on lake michigan in 2-3ft waves. I would like a boat that could be sailed single handed but it could still be a fairly technical/involved boat and that would be fine. I have experience on some smaller boats 12 - 15 foot sunfish style and sloop rigged similar to an O,day 17.

As far as my build experience goes this is my first build but I am a fairly accomplished tradesman and carpenter. I also program autocad and run CNC routers which is why I am looking for CAD drawings so that I can utilize the machines as much as possible.

Thanks for any input you have,

Gary

[bistros]

Originally Posted by GEDaggett

I am looking for stitch and tape (plywood with glass & Epoxy). I am looking something recreational I can put two or three adults in. I also would like something that has room for modification to plans(such as adding storage lockers, transom motor mount, general flexible design as I will most likely tweek it quite a bit. I live in Chicago so something that would be stable for day sails on lake michigan in 2-3ft waves. I would like a boat that could be sailed single handed but it could still be a fairly technical/involved boat and that would be fine. I have experience on some smaller boats 12 - 15 foot sunfish style and sloop rigged similar to an O,day 17.

As far as my build experience goes this is my first build but I am a fairly accomplished tradesman and carpenter. I also program autocad and run CNC routers which is why I am looking for CAD drawings so that I can utilize the machines as much as possible.

Much better info! The designers here will give you their ideas.

From what I see, there are lots of options, but 11-14 feet is kind of small for 2-3 adults - you are really looking around 15-16 (or more) feet size wise. Lake Michigan is very serious sailing (for those that don't know the area). I sail on Lake Huron a lot and it isn't uncommon to go out in 2-3 foot waves and return in much bigger. Michigan is scarier sailing from Chicago as the weather sneaks up over land first, and the prevalent breeze is offshore.

Stitch & tape builds are relatively easy, and a good way to start. Most builders will offer CAD files (Rhino, Solidworks, DXF etc.)

A great boat that meets all your needs (and has home build options) is a Wayfarer. Option for a spinnaker, storage built in, stable and a comfortable ride for families. A little smaller option would be an Enterprise. A Snipe might be an option as well. All these boats have plywood build options. All are long tested designs with worldwide followings, so they would be re-sellable when you want to move on.

One thought worth considering is that in our current fiscal nightmare conditions, it may be a LOT cheaper to buy a boat, sail a lot sooner and THEN make a decision on what you want to build with a season or two under your belt. You can buy a lot more used boat than you can build for a given dollar amount.

Building a 14-16 foot boat is going to cost 4-7000 dollars (ready on the water) at the end of the day, not including your labor. Rigging, mast, boom, foils & sails are going to be half your budget.

--
Bill

[GEDaggett]

Bill,

Thanks for the input. I have definitly thought about the purchase side of it and have actually seen some nice boats for $2000-2500. I partly would like to have a smaller boat to get me see legs on and then step up from there. My ideal would be a 22-27 trailerable crusier. It is just a bit intimidating to jump right into that boat with out much handling experience. As you said, very correctly, Lake michigan can be some scarry waters as you can go from 1-2 ft waves to 6 to 8ft swells in about an hour and if you are to far out your screwed. The other side is I really enjoy making things so this is the best of both worlds. I have seen some boat plans for smaller protected water size boats that will be under $1000 to build and I may go that direction.

Gary

[Chris Ostlind]

Gary,

Not to toss a chain in the works, here, but it may be fairly difficult to get a nice design that comes with fully cuttable CAD files. I'm sure that you see the problem in this for the designer. Once the files are out of his control, it's purely about trust that dozens of the same boat won't be flying out the door.

There may be a design, or two, out there on the Net that meets your preferences and... there may be a designer on this list who will have a desire to see a particular boat from his portfolio in the build stage, placing the sensitivity in a much less touchy area. It's not common, though.

Maybe a deal could be worked-out for you to cut panels for any future local boats of that type and you send the designer the agreed upon design fee? All kinds of stuff is possible, especially in a strange economic environment, such as the one we have running up our backsides right now.

Find a collection of boats that look to be just right for your interests, send out some query letters to the designers and pitch them with an idea that works nicely for them as well as yourself.

Never can tell...

[GEDaggett]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Gary,

Not to toss a chain in the works, here, but it may be fairly difficult to get a nice design that comes with fully cuttable CAD files. I'm sure that you see the problem in this for the designer. Once the files are out of his control, it's purely about trust that dozens of the same boat won't be flying out the door.

There may be a design, or two, out there on the Net that meets your preferences and... there may be a designer on this list who will have a desire to see a particular boat from his portfolio in the build stage, placing the sensitivity in a much less touchy area. It's not common, though.

Maybe a deal could be worked-out for you to cut panels for any future local boats of that type and you send the designer the agreed upon design fee? All kinds of stuff is possible, especially in a strange economic environment, such as the one we have running up our backsides right now.

Find a collection of boats that look to be just right for your interests, send out some query letters to the designers and pitch them with an idea that works nicely for them as well as yourself.

Never can tell...

Point well taken. I really just wanted to try and route the Transom and other smaller peices like that. I can always draw them once I get the plans or even digitize them with our equipment. I understand their position on it.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Gary,

Not to toss a chain in the works, here, but it may be fairly difficult to get a nice design that comes with fully cuttable CAD files. I'm sure that you see the problem in this for the designer. Once the files are out of his control, it's purely about trust that dozens of the same boat won't be flying out the door.

There may be a design, or two, out there on the Net that meets your preferences and... there may be a designer on this list who will have a desire to see a particular boat from his portfolio in the build stage, placing the sensitivity in a much less touchy area. It's not common, though.

Maybe a deal could be worked-out for you to cut panels for any future local boats of that type and you send the designer the agreed upon design fee? All kinds of stuff is possible, especially in a strange economic environment, such as the one we have running up our backsides right now.

Find a collection of boats that look to be just right for your interests, send out some query letters to the designers and pitch them with an idea that works nicely for them as well as yourself.

Never can tell...

Although I understand the desire to protect a design from unauthorized duplication, in this era of simple digital duplication you have to concede that a good portion of the population is capable of digitizing and cleaning up printed plans. My opinion for what it's worth is that the eventual product is going to be far better if the designer enables CNC cutting instead of obstructing it. The designer will end up with better builds and representation of their design art. Nothing is sadder than a bad build of a good design.

In my daily world I've had to decide long ago to stand firmly on the principle that the protection of my intellectual property by technical means is far less effective long term than opening my work to criticism and improvement by an audience of my peers.

In this case I would have people interested in electronic files sign a non-compete / non-disclosure contract. Sailing is a small world, and breach of the contract is relatively noticeable - builder's all blog, and a designer will quickly notice if lots of their designs appear without compensation.

[GEDaggett]

Any thoughts on this design and study plan? My initial thought is I would want a bit more sail area but I could rig it for a spinikar if I so desired (which I do). It seems like a solid design and straight forward construction with the ability to tinker. ???

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/CR1....htm?prod=CR13

[bistros]

Originally Posted by GEDaggett

Any thoughts on this design and study plan? My initial thought is I would want a bit more sail area but I could rig it for a spinikar if I so desired (which I do). It seems like a solid design and straight forward construction with the ability to tinker. ???

http://www.bateau.com/studyplans/CR1....htm?prod=CR13

Not exactly my cup of tea, so I'll recuse myself.

Sellers of plans are trying to .. sell plans, so their descriptions of things are quite optimistic.

Three adult people in a 13 foot sail boat is uncomfortable at best and unsafe in many circumstances.

Building an orphan design (one without a large following or fleet) is for people that just don't care about the expense, and are willing to give up the social side of sailing in a group. I've built an orphan high performance single hand skiff - with 125 square feet of upwind sail and an additional 160 square feet of downwind spinnaker. Very few people would be interested in sailing my boat, and it can't sit unattended at a dock for thirty seconds without capsizing. I'm cool with that, but you would probably hate it.

I really think you would be better off buying a used boat for now and building a project like a canoe or kayak to learn the skills. You could sell the canoe or kayak when done for more than your investment, and you'd end up with skills and a far better idea of what you want sailboat wise. Once you refine your desires for a boat, then by all means build!

The prices quoted on the site I reviewed are questionable. Decent marine plywood made with waterproof glue and rot resistant wood isn't cheap. Clear western red cedar and Douglas fir aren't cheap. West System epoxy and materials are not cheap. Fixtures, fittings and hardware are not cheap. I've got about $600 in purchased hardware on m y boat, and a fair bit of it is used. My dacron main sail was about $1000 with shipping. My spinnaker was $500.

I spent over $300 on paint alone.

If you are looking to build a professional quality boat, it costs. If you are looking to build a very low cost effort, more power to you. My boat was optimized for low cost at minimal performance compromise, while expecting professional quality results, an I put $5000 into it. I had a used 505 mast, a used carbon boom, a used bowsprit, some used and much new rigging parts.

I know I could put a minimalist boat together for very little (under $2000), but not one I would sail on Lake Huron outside of a harbor breakwater.

I'm trying to give you the chance to recognize that a full on build effort right now may end up with a disappointing result, failure to meet your real needs and a lot of expense and effort. I hope I'm not sounding discouraging, rather I want you to end up happy, enthused that your result exceeds expectations and you would do it again.

[Munter]

have you considered an I550? google the class name for more details. Its a bit bigger than what you've described so far but would be a far more fun boat to sail.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Munter

have you considered an I550? google the class name for more details. Its a bit bigger than what you've described so far but would be a far more fun boat to sail.

I agree whoreheartedly (yes, I saw the spelling mistake but it was too funny to correct). I watched the Tokyo Trash Baby (i550) project on Sailing Anarchy while being built, and it is a great fit for this type of project and usage.

I think the original poster would be far better served building this type of boat than a 13' dinghy. Just as easy to sail, far safer given the waters contemplated and capable of meeting his requirements far better. An i550 would be a project that he could be happy with for years, rather than a project where it's shortcomings would make it a bad investment in a season.

Good news is the build is fast and simple, with little real world effort difference from what he's already thinking about.

[GEDaggett]

I checked out the I550. That is a nice setup but I Think a bit more "racer" than I was looking for. I may have found something that gives me the best of both worlds so to speak. There is a fella selling a 71 cal 21 that has been gutted. He says the hull is water tight and the boat is solid (that will all be tested before purchase of course). So having the Hull complete, sails and rigging means I just have to set her up the way I want her and do bottom paint. Do you know much about the Cal 21 and it's stability or lack thereof. I know it is not a coastal cruiser But it also not a sunfish. My main goal is to be able to sail her from Chicago to Michigan city and back (roughly 30 miles 1 way) Any thing you know would be helpful.

If you are interested here is a link to the craigslist ad. http://southbend.craigslist.org/boa/877289476.html

Thanks

Gary

[Munter]

Perhaps the i550 is too much but there would be options to tone it down a little if you wanted something a little less lively. A smaller rig is the obvious solution though I guess you could go with a little more ballast too.
I know nothing about the Cal 21 but thats a pretty old boat (I assume fiberglass) to be going coastal offshore in.

Good luck either way.