Need rudder info

[mariner 40]

I bought a mariner 40 that needs lots of care. The guy that owned it cut the rudder off using a chainsaw. Does anyone know a good shop that makes rudders or know of a good book for reference? The rudder is 68" X 24" X 2" plus post.
thanks

[PAR]

Drop me an email (click on my name) an we can discuss your options.

[jbowers417]

I just happened to catch this. On the top part of the rudder of my 27 foot lobster carvel wooden hulled boat, where is this supposed to be resealed at??
It's so far back in the keel, don't know if I can even reach it from the inside of the boat. I was told I'd have to reseal it.

[Eric Sponberg]

Phils Foils in Ontario specializes in rudder construction and repair. His website is:

http://www.philsfoils.com/

Eric

[jbowers417]

Thanks for the info Eric. I'll e-mail them and see what I get.

[alan white]

Originally Posted by jbowers417

I just happened to catch this. On the top part of the rudder of my 27 foot lobster carvel wooden hulled boat, where is this supposed to be resealed at??
It's so far back in the keel, don't know if I can even reach it from the inside of the boat. I was told I'd have to reseal it.

If it was leaking and not addressed before, it must be hard to get to, because it should be easy to fix if you can get to it. I'm assuming a pipe, male-threaded at the top for a packing-type seal that is hex-shaped and located just below the quadrant.
If you can't reach it, is there a deck plate or lazerette? There should be easy access for all kinds of reasons, including to the steering cables.
If there's no deck plate you ought to install a large one if you can't reach the area easily from under. Either that or a lazerette across the stern.

Alan

[jbowers417]

I am unfamiliar with the term lazerette. There are no steering cables. It's a mechanical system using a heavy rod. Kind of hard for me to describe. A single rod, below deck behind the ship's wheel, that goes all the way back to the rudder. After what you've mentioned, I'm going to check that area out much closer to see if there is some sort of panel somewhere for this purpose.
At this point, I know of no such entry point.

[jbowers417]

Alan, I'm sorry. What is a quadrant? What does it look like? And what you are describing in the way of possibly having a threaded pipe with a seal on it, in all probability is exactly what this all about given what the rest of the steering system looks like. This is my first inboard and largest vessel I've ever owned. So this is an ongoing classroom for me.

[alan white]

Originally Posted by jbowers417

I am unfamiliar with the term lazerette. There are no steering cables. It's a mechanical system using a heavy rod. Kind of hard for me to describe. A single rod, below deck behind the ship's wheel, that goes all the way back to the rudder. After what you've mentioned, I'm going to check that area out much closer to see if there is some sort of panel somewhere for this purpose.
At this point, I know of no such entry point.

A rod still uses an arm. The arm would likely be keyed onto the rudder post or square with a pinch bolt.
A lazerette is a storage locker in the cockpit, usually located aft. Only suggesting where you might find better access.

[alan white]

Originally Posted by jbowers417

Alan, I'm sorry. What is a quadrant? What does it look like? And what you are describing in the way of possibly having a threaded pipe with a seal on it, in all probability is exactly what this all about given what the rest of the steering system looks like. This is my first inboard and largest vessel I've ever owned. So this is an ongoing classroom for me.

A quarter circle or semi-circle-shaped casting around which steering cable is wrapped. In use it would do what a pulley would do, though is needn't be a complete circle like a pulley.
Below what is now clearly a steering arm, there would be a bronze nut that incorporates a packing gland. The packing material (a ropy, waxy material cut from a long piece), over time, is compressed by the adjustment of the nut
and it becomes hard and must be replaced. The nut is undone, the appropriate length of soft new packing inserted around the shaft, and the nut is replaced and tightened, which shapes the packing against the shaft and the inside of the nut, sealing out water.

[jbowers417]

So, as I understand this, this ropy waxy material is wrapped around the rudder's rod up inside the keel area. It's wrapped between the opening in the keel in the inside and this bronze nut. When you tighten this nut down, it compresses this material around the rudder rod at the point where it comes through the keel sealing it off. Am I correct or do I not still understand? And by the way, I thank you very much for your time and patience.
As far as the cockpit, only thing back there is a bench seat that seals off the fuel tank. The removal of about two dozen heavily embedded bronze screws should remove that. Once done, may even afford me access to that rudder. By the way, would you happen to know what the name of this ropy waxy material is and where I may purchase it?

[PAR]

Packing is the material's name. It lives under a gland nut, which is tightened down on top of the rudder port (the thingie that houses the rudder shaft and has the packing inside). Generally, you remove the quadrant, which should be easy enough to figure out once you see it. Then you remove the gland nut (it's us usually a big sucker) with a wrench and tap the shaft (easy, you can ding it up), which will cause the rudder (with shaft attached) to drop down, if you're lucky right out of the boat. Unless your rudder port is well clear of the water (most aren't), then you'll have to be on the hard to do this. It's also important to have enough room to drop the rudder, so have the boat jacked up so it will clear.

A photo of the outside stern area will make things much easy to describe. Additional photos of the inside (rudder port area) will be helpful as well.

[alan white]

This would be a gasoline tank---- doubtful it's open to the bilge. It probably (hopefully for safety's sake) has decking under it. However, there may be a removable plate inside the seat box on the sole. Really, you should see exactly where the rudder post enters the boat from standing next to the boat. If it appears to be centered under the seat box, then that's where you get at it.
Such seals should be easier to access than you're describing. It would make sense to simplify the inspection/repair procedure for this very important part of your boat. I keep trying to imagine this boat. Given the size and style, there must be no crawl space to speak of under the cockpit-- just a pair of heavy stringers notched over the frames that also support the cockpit sole frames. Leaving that seat box as the only way in. Photos!

[jbowers417]

Not sure which pictures these are of the lobster boat. If it's what I think they may be, they're photos of the helm area, ship's wheel, paint job on console, circuit breaker panel I installed, three way switch and inside of port side of bow. If this works, then I'll look for the pictures I have of the rudder.

[jbowers417]

The gasoline tank ( 40 gal ) which is located behind the bench seat, actually is sitting on top of a wooden frame work. Not on the very bottom of the boat. I need to go take more specific photos then will post them for you and PAR too look at.