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  #106  
Old 06-24-2006, 11:51 AM
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RHough RHough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord
... I have two sets(one for about 5 years ,one for about 2 1/2 years) that have never failed in rigorous use-
5 years? ... and no successful foiler? What are you using them for?
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  #107  
Old 06-24-2006, 04:19 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Secondary Foil Use

Structural armatures for plaster lawn gnomes?

I hear Doug's yard in Florida is festooned in plaster Gnomes, deer, rabbits and other sensitive forest creatures.
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  #108  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:19 PM
sigurd sigurd is offline
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frosh, Chris Ostlind, Rhough you are being derogatory.
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  #109  
Old 06-26-2006, 09:42 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Gnomishly good

Perhaps. Though it's a lengthy context and has to be completely read to be appreciated.

I take it then, Sigurd, that you might be known to have a Gnome or two on your lawn? ;-)
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  #110  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:00 PM
DSmith DSmith is offline
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Take it to Sailing Anarchy

Maybe you should take this over to Sailing Anarchy (www.sailinganarchy.com/forums) so that people can have some serious technical discussions on boat design(.net).
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  #111  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:27 PM
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frosh frosh is offline
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Go to Sailing Anarchy?

Hi Sigurd and DSmith, Chris is right about the context being important. The three of us have no desire to post derogatory items and I would argue if any have in fact been undeservedly so. Mr Lord seems to have little desire to engage in a technical exchange of ideas that are in fact grounded in reality. I did notice that Mr Lord has been very quiet the last few days, as we had posed him a few questions (which were easy to answer) relevant to the thread; questions that he chooses to ignore, which is his prerogative.
I (speaking for myself, but likely the other two also) am very into design as opposed to hype, and love the opportunity to make any sort of useful technical or practical contribution. In addition the three referred to, have between them commenced many serious threads.
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  #112  
Old 06-26-2006, 10:28 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Who said technical?

So, what is your technical contribution, DSmith?

And for that matter, why do all the conversations have to be about issues that are technical in nature? Why can't they be aesthetic, or even value driven discussions? They're both important elements in sailboat design.

How about practical matters such as socially redeeming in nature or explorative form studies?

On the front page of the forums available, the subheading under the topic sailboats presents this as a quote: "Discuss monohull sailboats - production and custom - and sailboat design"

It doesn't say technical issues only. But as long as we have you on the line... What's your technical preference. We can go there if it looks interesting.
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  #113  
Old 06-26-2006, 11:15 PM
sigurd sigurd is offline
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(1st photo from http://www.flickr.com/photos/weelittlegnome/26257452/)
Attached Thumbnails
Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)-26257452_d66fc92fb0.jpg  Moth on Foils: 35.9 knots(41.29 mph)-cimg1829.jpg  
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  #114  
Old 06-26-2006, 11:28 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Viva Gnomistas!!

Yeah, the fish kite is very technical in nature if flown properly, so DSmith would probably like it, though I'm not going to advocate the standing-up routine in a boat that small while flying that much fish.

A "little gnome in a boat" Is that a euphemism? The little dude is kinda cool and would look good on the foredeck of a retro foiler. Please tell me it's a bobble head model?
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  #115  
Old 06-27-2006, 06:50 PM
Doug Lord
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Moth on Foils: 420's bite the dust

From Rohan Veal's website for Tuedsay, June 27,2006"
" Finally got out for a sail on Sunday off Black Rock in a nice 10-18 knots, and sailed up to Sandringham to do some short course racing against some local 420's. Ended up nearly doing 2 laps to their 1 lap everytime."
-------
420-LOA- 13.75', SA 110sq.ft. upwind ; 205 sq.ft. dowmwind.
---
Moth 11', SA upwind and downwind-85 sq.ft.
=====================
Must be a blast picking off the known universe of sailboats under 20' one by one by one-way to go Rohan!
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  #116  
Old 06-27-2006, 07:48 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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So What!

I still own my original RD350 Yamaha production racer and, on the right surface and geography, I can blow-off lot's of 1000+cc machines at will. In full, canyon racer mode, I can last about two hours at the controls and then the bigger machines cruise on by, headed for parts further down the road.

Notice I said, right surface and geography. This sort of selected conditions mismatch has been going on for years, Doug. Foilers did not create a new scenario here.

So, your point is, exactly what, in this ridiculous comparison?
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  #117  
Old 06-27-2006, 08:13 PM
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usa2 usa2 is offline
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Why dont we compare multis and monohulls again? The argument made about the same amount of sense.
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  #118  
Old 06-27-2006, 10:17 PM
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RHough RHough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usa2
Why dont we compare multis and monohulls again? The argument made about the same amount of sense.
Foiler moths are multi-hulls ...

They have two bodies in the water that support their weight, just as a catamaran has two bodies in the water supporting it's weight.

Moths are mono-hulls only when the foil support structure (the hull) is in the water.

There is no argument here. Moths are neat little boats ... no doubt. They are faster than some boats and slower than others. They make a great sideshow and attract attention to small boat racing. All good things.
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  #119  
Old 06-27-2006, 11:57 PM
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frosh frosh is offline
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A Valid Comparison

Hi Doug, when my kids were about 8 and 10 years old I used to race against them in my backyard pool. To make it a fair contest, they had to swim 4 laps to my 6 laps. When they were around 16 and 18 years old and I was 8 years older, we made the rules the opposite of what they were. The competition was always close, and probably a lot more fun than a foiler Moth beating a 420.
What in the ---- do you think you are revealing that is more important than this? It also sounds like Rohan should get a couple of things into perspective as well.
Don't they sail A-Cats in Victoria? I know they do, and he should be going there for some competition. Even so, we don't need to hear about it.
It has become such a yawn!
We already know the Moth is quick on foils; lets get onto the next thing now.
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  #120  
Old 06-28-2006, 05:08 AM
Doug Lord
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Moth vs whatever

Some people are not aware even yet of the racing Rohan has done against the A class cat-beating a fleet around the course repeatedly in conditions that suit them both(See Foiler1 GP) as well as other catamarans up to 20'.
In addition, the organization that hands out small boat ratings in Australia rates the Moth faster than the 49er.
All these small victories add up to one hell of a monohull sailboat. Claiming that the foiler Moth is not a monohull is ludicrous because the boat has defined the bi-foil MONOHULL foil system. In it's own class the foiler Moth races against non foil boats as a matter of course.
To not recognise the design implications of the bi-foil system for monohulls of all sizes
is probably quite short sighted. This system represents a startling increase in sailing efficiency from speeds of 14 knots in a 5knot wind to the current class max-the subject of this thread. Pretty cool stuff !
And , 2, now monohulls ARE faster than catamarans - at least in boats under 20'....
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