Moth on Foils: 32.2 knots (37.03 mph)

It's precisely what he describes along with the response regarding the Laser by Tillerman that combined lay the groundwork for a foiling revolution on a Peoples Foiler level. Whether the Moth or a Moth deriviative like the Bladerider can rise to the occasion is an open question. Serious attention will have to be given to making the boat easier to sail for first timers, simple to rig etc and that can be done and WILL be done on a Peoples Foiler. Monofoiling is an extraordinary development in sailing -started by the Moth with huge potential for average sailors everywhere if the visionairies of this new form of sailing keep their eye on the ball and use the same level of innovative thinking in adapting these boats to new sailers as was done by the Moth Foiler pioneers in developing the technology in the first place.
Sailing will change and has changed and the Monofoiler Revolution can lead to a whole new appreciation of what the wind can do and redefine sailing pleasure in many minds but the Sunday sailors will have to know there is a revolution first and see it and feel it up close and personal.

[Dan S]

delusional

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

It's precisely what he describes along with the response regarding the Laser by Tillerman that combined lay the groundwork for a foiling revolution on a Peoples Foiler level. Whether the Moth or a Moth deriviative like the Bladerider can rise to the occasion is an open question. Serious attention will have to be given to making the boat easier to sail for first timers, simple to rig etc and that can be done and WILL be done on a Peoples Foiler. Monofoiling is an extraordinary development in sailing -started by the Moth with huge potential for average sailors everywhere if the visionairies of this new form of sailing keep their eye on the ball and use the same level of innovative thinking in adapting these boats to new sailers as was done by the Moth Foiler pioneers in developing the technology in the first place.
Sailing will change and has changed and the Monofoiler Revolution can lead to a whole new appreciation of what the wind can do and redefine sailing pleasure in many minds but the Sunday sailors will have to know there is a revolution first and see it and feel it up close and personal.

[Chris Ostlind]

Oh, no, Bubba, the madness has been here for awhile. If you were to carefully remove the rose colored glasses and take a long look into that morning mirror, you'd see the bloodshot remnants of a pair of long since deceased tools that could have been used for a clear sense of vision.

Instead, you read that piece and took away the opposite of the very thing to which he is referring. The spendy, point to point speed machines are not the way to grow a recreational pursuit. That message is especially clear when one considers the technological complexities of the foiling style of boat when compared to the typical rec boat found on the beach.

Issues, Bubba, too many issues for Joe SixPack to overcome. When you do finally get that, you'll appropriately turn your attention elsewhere.

[frosh]

As I have been hearing a lot about a revolution that must be coming, I thought that I would find out more by checking out the greatest one in history, THE FRENCH

From Wikipedia this was a major event of that revolution:

"On 14 July 1789, after hours of combat, the insurgents seized the Bastille prison, killing the governor, Marquis Bernard de Launay, and several of his guards. Although the Parisians released only seven prisoners; four forgers, two lunatics, and a sexual offender, the Bastille served as a potent symbol of everything hated under the ancien régime".

GLOSSARY- Insurgents - Doug and his protegees (who?)
Bastille Prison- Beaches of Florida USA
The Governor- C. Ostlind
The Guards - everyone else on this thread
Ancien regime- simple uncomplicated slower dinghys.

Of those seven prisoners released, I wonder which one(s) the insurgents considered as their highest priority?

[casavecchia]

Being the thread Moth related, a couple of pictures of the new Bladerider may be of interest.
www.moth.it
Marco.

[CT 249]

Nice pics Marco, thanks.

How many foilers are there in Italy now? Did the budget foiler route you were looking at work?

From Rohan's site:
kite_foiler.jpg?story=1781
Address:http://www.rohanveal.com/photos/kite...jpg?story=1781 Changed:7:43 AM on Thursday, August 24, 2006

[casavecchia]

Hi CT,
in Italy we have at the moment six foilers and four low riders.
Sadly my Moth is still unfinished due to lack of time.
Cheers,
Marco.

[CT 249]

Thanks Marco.

In the September issue of the mag they do " A Look At Eight[ actually, nine!] Turbo-Charged Speedsters" and classify them at the cost per knot of top speed. Two of the boats are full flying foilers and one uses rudder t-foils. Other than calling L'hydroptere a "planing trimaran"-it is a hydrofoil trimaran- the article is somewhat interesting.(starts on p 58)
1) L'hydroptere-45 knots-cost per knot= $170,667 MULTIFOILER
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2) Volvo Open 70-40.6 knots-cost per knot=$98,500
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3) G-Class Cat-45 knots-cost per knot=$177,777
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4) 18-Foot Skiff-30 knots-cost per knot=$833
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5) Stepped-Hull Catamaran-(Parliers boat)-45+ knots-cost per knot=$69,666 (uses rudder T-foils)
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6) Super Maxi-Alfa Romeo II-35 knots-cost per knot= $285,714
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7) Open 60-Hugo Boss-30 knots-cost per knot=$83,333
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=====================
8) International Moth-27.9knots- cost per knot= $538 - MONOFOILER
=====================
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9) "An Outrageous Family Cruiser"-Corsair 24 MKII-cost per knot=$3,250

[gggGuest]

I think that's exactly right. The foil Moth is the most fun, cheapest, and most efficient form of extreme sailing on the planet... But there are no "people's turbo charged speedsters" in cars (or bikes) and there won't be in boats either. Just as well too bearing in mind the skills of the average driver (and sailor!)

[Chris Ostlind]

Actually, I see something rather striking when I look at this limited comparison of cost per knot of boat speed. Other than the very nice family cruiser mention of the Farrier/Corsair F-24, there isn't a single performance oriented recreational boat in the mix. Strange that not a single fast beach cat is listed here in the vast void below the cost effectiveness of the F-24.

Other than the F-24, you just might be able to make the argument that the Hugo Boss could be fitted out for a perf. cruising scene. Not one of the other boats would be suitable for anything other than full-on racing without very substantial makeovers and a complete disruption of the performance potential it represents.

This indicates that there's room for a People's Boat all right, but it isn't in the solo, or even two-up, category. It would be a fast, reasonably priced boat that can be enjoyed by a small family for a price well under the F-24's figure.

If one really wants to hit this mythical People's Paradigm, then one would be concentrating their efforts on this market segment and not solo, or two place, overly complex boats of dubious value to a recreational user.

In a very weird way, Doug, someone has done a potentially interesting market survey for you and you might spend a long moment dosing-out what it all means.

Hint... the solution isn't through a sliding seat(s), or a weighted, flippy-floppy bulb. It’s not through rack mounted floats, or magical wands with internal parts that go bump in the night, or highly dubious ability to self-right, or any of the other exotic (read expensive) stuff that racers would be more than willing to put up with. It's in a very nicely designed boat of wondrous affordability that can hold a Mom, Dad, and two water ready kids and can be towed by a mid-sized car.

This boat would be something along the lines of a Honda Accord with a peppy, DOHC V6. Something where the base model affords as much performance as the deluxe version and you can easily step-up in comfort appointments with modular additions.

That's the future People's Boat, Doug, not a two place foiler.

[Tactic]

I have a model yacht..it cost me $50 per knot.
statistics are great! you can make them say whatever you want.

[CT 249]

I want to know where they got the $25,000 18 Foot Skiff. That was about the price the original short wing/2 rig "trainer" B18 came out at in 1988.

The 18's cost of say $55k AUS should make it proportionately much more expensive than the Moth.($1800/knot).

Moth at 15k/27.9 = $540/knot.

Laser @15 knots/$6000 = $400/knot (and that's probably conservative on the speed, I've read Michael Blackburn apparently hit 20 under GPS).

WIndsurfer One Design = C. 20 knots/$1500= $75/knot.

Slalom board....say 38 kn/$4000= $105/knot.

Optimist.....say 7 knots/$3000 = $428/knot.

12 Foot Skiff - $40k/28knots = $1430/knot.

It's showing the same trend as looking at sail area in relationship to speed does - less is more. Cheaper boats are clearly better value for money in terms of raw speed in the same way that secondhand boats are better value for money.

And boards win hands down in speed-per-dollar.

For a "stand up" sailboat a windsurfer wins the bang for the buck contest hands down even if you include a "quiver" of rigs and a couple of boards considering that the top speed is , what, 48 knots now?
For a "sit-down" sailboat the Internaional Moth Foiler wins -no contest. For now....
-------------
From the Sail article quoted in my previous post:
"The annals of sailboat design are rife with accounts of innovation and determination, but it's only now-in the era of lightning -fast computers, space-age modeling systems, and comparitively featherweight building materials-that ultrapowerful sailboats have progressed beyond the realm of pipe dreams and failed science experiments. While these boats are a reality the records they establish are as ephemeral as their wake; in this high-stakes game it's only a matter of time before a next generation design rewrites the record books."
That's exactly right: it's only a matter of time before a Peoples Foiler changes dinghy sailing forever by providing access to the thrills pioneered in the Moth class to a much, much wider range of sailors. Only a matter of time......