Moth on Foils: 31.1 knots (35.8 mph)

[Doug Lord]

As I read the following wing rigs with slots are out!

http://www.moth-sailing.org/download...oupNotice3.pdf

[peterchech]

Back to practical... I follow all these foiling threads silently, because I have nothing to really contribute but learn so much by reading. And I love the concept of foils generally. Buuuuut.... I don't have lots of cash, and so probably couldn't buy a new foiling moth or even just the foils. And honestly, fabricating precise carbon fiber foils is almost certainly beyond my ability (I'm the after work stitch and glue type of builder if you know what I mean...)

So... is there any application of all this wonderful foiling technology to a backyard builder on a modest budget?

Or will I just have to wait until that day in the possibly far away future when foiling catches on big time, then buy used 20 years afterwards lol? Hell, the price of used multihulls is STILL sky high compared to monos, so I can only imagine how long I'll have to wait to afford a foiler...

[Doug Lord]

Peter, there are companies that sell production foils-you can just build the boat. I would think that getting used Moth foils might be possible now since a lot of the old foils have been improved upon.
But setting up a foiler-any monofoiler or multifoiler-requires really good instruction/plans. I'm not aware of plans for any complete foilers available anywhere. If you're serious write to John Ilett( "fastacraft", Perth ,Australia)-he might be helpful. You could also go to the International Moth Class site and contact some of the other manufacturers just to see what they say.
The R Class guys are building there own foils and might sell a set.
HydroSail(Bradfields Company) sells foils for larger boats including for the Osprey but they're pretty expensive.

[Doug Lord]

Looks like wing sails with slots are out.
http://www.moth-sailing.org/imca/faces/news.jsp

[Doug Lord]

The records / pioneers page has theoretically been updated on the International Moth site.
1) Under the heading of "Pioneer" the name of John Ilett is missing! It was Ilett that adapted Bradfields wand altitude control system to the Moth in a unique way that paved the way forward for every modern Moth.
This is a flat disgrace.
2) One of the most important techniques in sailing a Moth(or any bi-foiler) is "veal heel" pioneered by Rohan Veal. No mention of this on the pioneers page or anywhere else!!! Not only is this a technique unique to bi-foilers(not just the Moth) it is a technique that allows an increase in RM(righting moment) with no increase in weight on the order of 20-40%. It is not just "weather heel", it is a technique possible only on bi-foilers where the CG of the hull(and everything else) moves significantly to weather. And thats not the only advantage of "veal heel": the daggerboard is unloaded since the hydrofoil is developing lateral resistance in addition to vertical lift. This makes ventilation of the vertical fin(daggerboard) much less likely. And from Bill Beaver: it allows a lift component from the sail and shifts the helmsmans weight closer to the water decreasing the impact of his/her wind shadow and putting him/her in a slower moving part of the wind boundary layer.
Its a damn shame that such important elements of the pioneering history of the Moth foiler have been ignored by the very class that benefits most from these discoveries!

http://www.moth-sailing.org/imca/faces/Records.jsp

Illett is mentioned in the very last sentence on this page: http://www.moth-sailing.org/imca/fac...0F11D3A189AD75

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There is a rumor on the UK Moth site that the peak speed class record is now 33 knots(37.95mph). When I find the story(if any) I'll ask Jeff to update the title of this thread.
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Pictures,L to R : 1) by James Boyd of the Daily Sail, 2) by "kit" from SA Miami winter series 2012, 3) from Bill Beaver illustrating RM gain from veal heel, 4) Veal Heel sketch-click on image for clarity 5) Rohan Veal from Lake Garda:

[Doug Lord]

Layline Miami Winter Series, Event 2:
Who's on third?

http://www.mach2mothusa.com/2012/01/...s-event-2.html

[Blue Leader]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ViJZ...layer_embedded

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by Blue Leader

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ViJZ...layer_embedded

===========================
Great video! Proves once again that the Moth faster than the 49er-and the kite is faster than both. More evidence to add to the fact that the Moth is the fastest sailboat-mono or multi-under 20'......

[cmaas]

I remember reading that on a foil with a flap, the hinge, provided it is smooth, should be on the bottom high pressure side. That the hinge gap is better on the top. Or that in any case it is more important to keep the bottom of the foil smooth.

Does anyone know about this?

[Doug Lord]

Chris, here is some relevant commentary by Tom Speer and Mark Drela:
Foiler Design

[Doug Lord]

Moth singlehanded? Think again: great pix of Mach2 Moths being sailed two up-and what spectacular crew they are... http://www.mach2mothusa.com/

[Doug Lord]

Moths beat Formula and Race boards ?

"A few years ago the boards could almost match the moths upwind in 12+ and beat us downwind. Now they can hardly beat any moths upwind and get thrashed by the best moths downwind as well."

More here-post #2 : http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...&#entry3655479

[Doug Lord]

From Scuttlebutt Europe today:

Setting The Record Straight
Last week in Sail-World we announced that Ukrainian-Russian crew aboard 30m sailing yacht Scorpius had claimed a new world record in sailing farther south into Antarctica than any other boat had gone, reaching 77 degrees. But we were wrong - well, in a way; because in 1965, Lt. Commander Steve Cockley, based in Mc Murdo Sound, had sailed a Moth, Tiny Too, an 11ft (3.4m) dinghy at 77.5 degrees south. Of course he didn't sail it TO Antarctica, just IN Antarctica.

To celebrate his achievement, he wrote a letter (not an email, in 1965) to the designer of the Moth, Hal Wagstaff

So it's the International Moth that holds the current world record for the furthest south a sailing craft has ever 'ventured'. A photo of the Moth, designed by Hal Wagstaff and built by his brother Gary in Wellington NZ, hangs even today in the Antarctic base at McMurdo Sound.

Sail-World would like to thank reader Rohan Veal, one of the pioneers of modern foiling moth racing and multiple Moth World champion for pointing this out to us. -- Nancy Knudsen

Read Cockley's letter at:
www.sail-world.com/index.cfm?nid=95506