Moth on Foils: 31.1 knots (35.8 mph)

[PI Design]

It must be pretty special to go to the expense of patenting that?

[astevo]

the membrane thing, is, as far as i can figure out, they way they tighten the wing tramps.

the tramp has a boltrope type of system at the deck edge, the tramp just encloses the outer wingbar likewise the aft wing bar

the trick is that by aligning the bias of the cloth at 45' to fore/aft causes the tension applied by the lashing on the front edge to be distributed throughout the cloth more evenly.
conventional systems have lashing on 2 edges, generally forward and inboard, but sometimes forward and outboard edges (some of John Iletts early boats were set up like this)

at least thats what i thought.
there isnt anything else that could fit a membrane tensioning description on a bladerider.

This is very interesting ; does anyone know anything about this guy?
Aardvark Technologies
Address:http://www.aardvarkracing.co.uk/avt3...shop&Itemid=54

[PI Design]

Thanks Astevo - hardly seems worth patenting, but who knows...
Doug - Aardvark (Mike Cook) is based about 10 miles from me. He builds carbon fibre dinghies like National 12s and has a new Moth design which I haven't yet seen in the flesh. Access to the link is blocked from my work PC - what does it say?

From Rohans blog for Saturday October 20,2007:
" So the other guys went in and I stayed out to battle some of the best RSX sailors in the world in about 15-20 knots. I had the edge on them upwind with more height and more speed but a few of the top guys were able to catch up slightly downwind. However, I held them off in the first race quite easily, but by the second race I was buggered thanks to lack of fitness and training over the last few months. I still managed to win the race, but it was a lot closer than the first as I had a good battle with one of the top ranked locals."
Well, thats it-the fastest sailboat under 20'-at least when Rohan sails it! At that just underlines the incredible potential of this bi-foil technology as the sailors and boats get better....Way to go ,Rohan! And congratulations again to the Moth foiler pioneers who lit the match on this piece of sailing dynamite!
Rohan Veal: Home Page
Address:http://www.rohanveal.com/ Changed:8:56 AM on Tuesday, October 23, 2007
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
More news: RS600FF beats Moth? See last post of this thread:
Peoples Foiler II-the newest boats - Page 2 - Boat Design Forums
Address:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...d.php?p=166763

The incredible ,phenomenal and totally nonexistent IPER MOTH:
The IperMoth
Address:http://livesaildie.com/2007/10/the-ipermoth/ Changed:6:04 PM on Thursday, October 25, 2007

[CT 249]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

From Rohans blog for Saturday October 20,2007:
" So the other guys went in and I stayed out to battle some of the best RSX sailors in the world in about 15-20 knots. I had the edge on them upwind with more height and more speed but a few of the top guys were able to catch up slightly downwind. However, I held them off in the first race quite easily, but by the second race I was buggered thanks to lack of fitness and training over the last few months. I still managed to win the race, but it was a lot closer than the first as I had a good battle with one of the top ranked locals."
Well, thats it-the fastest sailboat under 20'-at least when Rohan sails it! At that just underlines the incredible potential of this bi-foil technology as the sailors and boats get better....Way to go ,Rohan! And congratulations again to the Moth foiler pioneers who lit the match on this piece of sailing dynamite!
Rohan Veal: Home Page
Address:http://www.rohanveal.com/ Changed:8:56 AM on Tuesday, October 23, 2007
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
More news: RS600FF beats Moth? See last post of this thread:
Peoples Foiler II-the newest boats - Page 2 - Boat Design Forums
Address:http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...d.php?p=166763

In no way can beating an RSX fleet suddenly make the foiler "the fastest sailboat under 20' at least" no matter who is sailing and to say that beating RSXs confirms the foiler is that quick is a complete load of ********.

The RSX is slower all-round than a Raceboard. It is marginally quicker in 15-20 knots than an early '90s Raceboard, but only marginally and that's matching an Olympic RSX-er to a good amateur Raceboarder.

Rohan's Sail Melbourne (IIRC) regatta in a good breeze in open water put him up with world class 14s and 49ers in good foiling conditions. That, from an 11 foot boat with no kite, is a fantastic effort. No one is saying the foiler is not fantastic, but to say that beating RSXs make the foiler the fastest boat under 20' is a complete load of bollocks.

Originally Posted by CT 249

In no way can beating an RSX fleet suddenly make the foiler "the fastest sailboat under 20' at least" no matter who is sailing and to say that beating RSXs confirms the foiler is that quick is a complete load of ********.

---------
CT, I think you're 100% right. In NO WAY did beating a fleet of the best sailors in the world on the RSX suddenly make the Moth foiler the fastest sailboat under 20'-it merely put an exclamation point at the end of a long sentence. Rohan and others have built a lengthy list of major victories against most boats under 20' including Aussie 18's, windsurfers of many types, Formula 18 catamarans ,A class catamarans, 49ers , I14's and many more. I think it is a fair comment that with Rohan sailing the Moth against the best in any other class- in conditions suiting each boat- that the Moth foiler is -without a doubt- the fastest sailboat under 20'. But most importantly what these accomplishments show is the huge potential of bi-foil technology and the incredible advances in sailboat design pioneered in the Moth class.
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Too bad you're not considerate enough of other forum visitors to keep your language under control.It does you no good whatsoever....

[CT 249]

Doug, you have shown little consideration yourself in the personal abuse stakes.

When did a foiler beat an 18 Foot Skiff?

Your claim that they have beaten F18s does not seem to be based on hard evidence. Yes, there is a claim that the foiler caught Tigers, but there were other F18s several minutes ahead of the Tigers in those races. Comparing a top foiler to a slow or average F18 is not a very good yardstick.

[foilr]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

---------
lengthy list of major victories against most boats under 20' including Aussie 18's

I'm not aware of any foilers having raced an Aussie 18' skiff, let alone beat them around the course.

I wouldn't mind giving them a run though.

So, Scott whats your best judgement: could you win around a course against somebody of equal sailing skill in the 18 class as you have in the Moth class and in conditions suitable to both boats?

[foilr]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

So, Scott whats your best judgement: could you win around a course against somebody of equal sailing skill in the 18 class as you have in the Moth class and in conditions suitable to both boats?

Probably not. I don't think I could win against myself in an 18. Perhaps on a course where the 18s had to reach without spinnakers, but the 18 VMG downwind would be better.

I do wonder where you got that list of victories that included the 18s? Or was it just made up? What else have you said which has no basis in reality?

Thanks, Scott. Most of the "victories" are from Rohan Veals site,as well as the A Class site and other sources; the quote on the 18's is from someone else and I can't(yet) find that reference.
However, I did find some references to the 2005 and 2006 Squaddy Monkey whatever where Gary of Formula Catamarans Australia says that cats have beaten Aussie 18's in both light and heavy air. And since Rohan has beaten every major cat fleet including A Class cats and F18's I think thats good back up.

[foilr]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Thanks, Scott. Most of the "victories" are from Rohan Veals site,as well as the A Class site and other sources; the quote on the 18's is from someone else and I can't(yet) find that reference.
However, I did find some references to the 2005 and 2006 Squaddy Monkey whatever where Gary of Formula Catamarans Australia says that cats have beaten Aussie 18's in both light and heavy air. And since Rohan has beaten every major cat fleet including A Class cats and F18's I think thats good back up.

I don't know why I bother replying... but...

Squaddy Monkey boats are hardly "equal ability" to World Champion Rohan.

In 4 seasons at the League I can't recall seeing an F18 race our fleet around the track.

Again they've probably done it at the Squaddy regatta. But as it's been said before, that's hardly a sound basis for comparison.

[CT 249]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Thanks, Scott. Most of the "victories" are from Rohan Veals site,as well as the A Class site and other sources; the quote on the 18's is from someone else and I can't(yet) find that reference.
However, I did find some references to the 2005 and 2006 Squaddy Monkey whatever where Gary of Formula Catamarans Australia says that cats have beaten Aussie 18's in both light and heavy air. And since Rohan has beaten every major cat fleet including A Class cats and F18's I think thats good back up.

When has Rohan beaten "every major cat fleet including F18s"????

In the reference you gave earlier (Sauna Sail) he said "only a few top guys on a Tornado and Hobie Tiger stayed ahead". However, there were other F18s (and an F16) that were finishing up to MINUTES ahead of the best Tigers in that regatta in the races Rohan did.

There is just no logic in the claim that because Rohan thinks he was catching everyone but a few guys on a T and a Tiger, he was also catching the other F18s that were minutes in front of the Tigers and the Tornado. How can you keep up this pretence?
Rohan says he caught the Tigers, but the Tigers were well behind the other F18s, therefore catching Tigers does not mean he beat the F18s. It's really not very difficult.

Gary - who comes from a state with no 18s - may be right about cats beating 18s in light and heavy winds. However, you will probably find that NO ONE thinks that the BM (which is I think the regatta Gary's talking about) is a good test of boatspeed.

And if you think the Australian Formula cat guys are ideal witnesses, how about the following quote from another Aussie Formula cat guy;

"Well, I watched Rohan Veal race against cats in a series regatta (Sauna Sail) with races varying from drifters to screamers (but always flat water) and you would be hard pressed to get a better comparison between cat’s and “the best moth sailer in the world” on a racecourse.
The majority of the conditions and the courses suited Rohan admirably, and although on some legs he could match and at times eclipse the outright speed of the F18 and F16 cats, he could never beat them between the buoys even on those legs where he could wind up to his fastest, (due entirely to his lower required point of sail and greater distance sailed to get that speed). On every other point of sail the F18’s (and F16’s including F16 Mosquitoes) went away from him quite noticeably and even the Alpha Omega F14 was faster than him around the course in every race that they competed in.
So although the moth in a top sailers hands, is extremely fast in a straight line on it’s best angle, when it comes to sailing on a race course it will not beat the “fast” cats.
It looks fast, and it is fast, but then race times do not lie and all the results are there in black and white to see."

Now, you use what one Aussie Formula cat sailor says as "proof" that cats are quicker than 18 Foot Skiffs. Here is another Aussie Formula cat sailor who says that Moth foilers are slower than fast cats (including 14s and old 16s). Why should we believe what one of these two Aussie Formula cat sailors say, and then not believe what the other one says?

I've beaten Rohan and his foiler in light and in heavy winds at the BM. Does that mean that Rohan and his foiler are slower than me and my boat?

HELL NO!!!! He's a better sailor in his class, on a better boat. What it shows is that using one or two results to "prove" that one boat is faster than another is not accurate or reasonable.

It would be much more interesting if you spent your energy trying to obtain some facts rather than finding references that give no times.