Moth on Foils: 31.1 knots (35.8 mph)

[PI Design]

Nope. And if I was, I still don't think I'd buy a new GP. Still, I suppose you can camp in them, which would be very pleasant on Windermere.

Originally Posted by CT 249

It's great to see the Moth doing well in the UK.

But I must take issue with your points. Those are UK figures, and in the UK most dinghies are NOT declining as you claim. Far from it - the Yachts and Yachting figures of national title attendances* shows that counting all classes of boat, overall national title attendance has climbed 20% since 1998. A steady 20% increase is NOT a decline, no matter how you measure it.

Seven years after it was launched, the Laser had a fleet of over 52,000 boats.


About 10+ years after the first commercially-viable kitesurfer was launched, there were about 200,000 kitesurfers.

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I apologize for mis-characterizing the growth of dinghy sailing in the UK. I guess I was thinking more about the US where the foiler Moth is adding to the numbers who sail Moths as well.
As to revolutions: NONE of the other major developments you mention encompass the broad potential of the bi-foil monofoiler(and/or multifoiler) technology. No one in their right mind could claim that the "first commercially viable" bi-foil anything happened 7 years ago! What happened then was the first time in history that anyone ever sailed anything on just two foils-big difference!
One could argue that a "commercially viable" bi-foiler has NOT been built yet since there is no bi-foiler available anywhere that fits the definition of a "Peoples Foiler". The Moth certainly is growing in many areas because it has pioneered this revolutionary technology but it is no Peoples Foiler.
The potential application of bi-foil technology, as mentioned before, has widespread implications for the design of monohulls from 10' to over 100' and potentially the same implications in multihull applications. Very few,if any, other technological revolutions in sailing have ever offered such potential to drastically increase speed and performance in general.

[PI Design]

Hey Doug,

Sorry to go off topic, but have you seen the yacht on p35 of the Random Picture Thread (Open Discussion)? I think you'll like it - water ballast, canting keel, canting mast etc.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Very few,if any, other technological revolutions in sailing have ever offered such potential to drastically increase speed and performance in general.

Pardon me if I ignore the rest of your (again) over the top post regarding the People's Foiler. It's a toad's argument, at best, after so many here have dunced your points one after the other.

Produce said affordable (as in under $6K boat) and we'll bash it around and see what it means for the "People" of the boating universe.

Now to the meat of the thing...

Let's just say that in your perfect, obtuse world of techno-boat wizardry, that there was never any development of carbon laminates, affordable production multihulls that sell in outrageuosly huge numbers (still) compared to a foiling anything, sandwich construction, aluminum spars, modern sail cloth, highly analyzed hull forms, single wall fiberglass production, rotomolded affordable People's Boats that are already knocking the crap out of the foiling world... and on and on and on the list goes until it wraps around your head and does it again.

Give it a rest, Doug. You'll first have to open your eyes before you can have the gift of sight. It's all out there, if you take off the foil blinders and let the world into your little sphere of understanding. Come on, man... you do have the capacity to get this. I'm just not sure you have the courage to get there.

[Grant. W.]

Hi Doug,
I don't think there will ever be a "peoples Foiler".
The reason that the moth foils is due to the boat being 11ft in length and 1ft in width, with a hull weight of between 9 & 12kgs. If you were to apply this to a Laser, you would need a great deal more sail area and larger foils just to get the hull out of the water.
A narrow skiff moth, at 28kgs fully rigged needs at least 7-8kt's of breeze to lift.(with the skipper having a body mass of 65-70kg's) the boat is travelling at around 10knt's when it comes out of the water. If you were to apply this to a Laser (I'm only using the Laser as a guide because I beleive the Laser to be a 'Peoples Boat') it would probably need at least 15-20knt's of breeze before it will lift, and if it does, it would probably be harder to balance than a foiling moth.
I know of a few 'mothies' that appreciate your passion for the foiling boat, as we are passionate about them ourselves.
Is it a revolution? It is in the 'Moth class'.
But to say it is, over the whole sport of sailing is a little premiture.
I love sailing these boats, but at $16,000.00 +Tax AUD, I don't think that we will ever match the vaste numbers that other classes like the laser have produced.

Regards,
Grant

Grant, if you haven't already, take a look at this thread:
Peoples Foiler :aeroSKIFF™ / M4 - Boat Design Forums
Address:Peoples Foiler :aeroSKIFF™ / M4
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And particularly the M4 mentioned in the first post. Read their site and what Simon Maguire is trying to do. Sound familiar?
You said that you don't think that there ever will be Peoples Foiler. Thats a long time, Grant, given the number of really dedicated people working on the concept right now.
Its just too good an idea and too revolutionary a technology to not be improved to the point of developing a Peoples Foiler; in my opinion it is bound to happen -probably sooner rather than later-at least I hope so.

[Grant. W.]

It's a big moth with pods.
and it looks like the same price tag.
Would be good for heavier set skippers, who want to foil.
Once again big price tag. For a peoples foiler
but good luck to Simon, you should have a sail of one Doug.

16.1 knots( best 10 sec. average) in 6(!) knots wind with a beginner at the helm-very cool! Theres more in Rohans latest update: www.rohanveal.com

Interesting poll and discussion here:
Australian Moth Class Association :: View topic - Foil development, are we done ?
Address:http://www.moth.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1187

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Interesting poll and discussion here:
Australian Moth Class Association :: View topic - Foil development, are we done ?
Address:http://www.moth.asn.au/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1187

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Whups! Damn! The Peoples Foiler is down to 22% after Phil Stevensen says regarding me and the "Peoples Foiler": "he is not to be encouraged" !
Wow! G'day mate! I would not have believed it if I hadna read it myself......

Interesting comments on SA from Phil "he is not to be encouraged" Stevensen on the recently held NSW State Championship held on a lake with a reputation for weed:

Scott said he stopped once on the last day to clear a foil, but no one else commented. Scott may well have picked up something from the bottom in the shallows close to shore, I have done that at St George in the past.
All other races were further out on the lake. There was some floating weed and there always seemed to be a few strands on the fin when we come ashore, but I think that mostly it gets washed off the fins as the boat rises and drops. Surface floating weed never gets near the lifting foils.
Phil S

No, really:


====================
For more examples of the spectacular coverage the Foiler Moth has generated across the world ,check this out:

http://www.rohanveal.com/press.html

Andy Patterson deserves a hell of a lot more credit than it appears to me that he has received for this monumental effort. I thought(until about 2 years ago), as did many people, that Brett Burvil had the first foiling Moth. Not so-it was Andy in 1994-5 years before the first bi-foil Moth flew:
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The first foiling moth : surface piercing 3-point foils 1994

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Posted by Andy P on DA

[frosh]

Doug, how did you discover this fantastic achievement by Andy? Also why hasn't he received the credit he deserved for this? It is around 13 years ago! If you can find out please post it on the forum.

[CT 249]

Errr, I thought every Moth foiler expert knew Andy was responsible for the first foiling Moth? No one has ever denied that he was there first.