Moth on Foils: 30.31 knots (34.86 mph)

[Doug Lord]

Rohan Veal, inspired me and many others with his development of the Moth with John Ilett, AMAC and others. He retired from Bladerider yesterday and from Moth sailing for an undetermined time. His work with the Moth actually changed the physics of sailing foilers with "veel heel" a technique only applicable to monofoilers(or a single variation) that changed the way the bi-foiler is sailed upwind.
I'll bet he'll be back to performance monofoiling before too long....
Good Luck, Rohan!

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Rohan Veal, inspired me and many others with his development of the Moth with John Ilett, AMAC and others. He retired from Bladerider yesterday and from Moth sailing for an undetermined time. His work with the Moth actually changed the physics of sailing foilers with "veel heel" a technique only applicable to monofoilers(or a single variation) that changed the way the bi-foiler is sailed upwind.
I'll bet he'll be back to performance monofoiling before too long....
Good Luck, Rohan!

Doug:

A point of order here. Rohan Veal did not "change" physics, he discovered a method by which he could use the physics of windward heel to his advantage. Physics is a science describing the unchanging rules and realities of the physical world. The only "change" in physics is in our human understanding of those realities as we develop more accurate descriptions, equations and formulas describing the physical world.

Sorry to nit pick, but your comments are making you sound like you believe Mr. Veal can change reality.

--
Bill

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by bistros

Doug:

A point of order here. Rohan Veal did not "change" physics, he discovered a method by which he could use the physics of windward heel to his advantage. Physics is a science describing the unchanging rules and realities of the physical world. The only "change" in physics is in our human understanding of those realities as we develop more accurate descriptions, equations and formulas describing the physical world.

Sorry to nit pick, but your comments are making you sound like you believe Mr. Veal can change reality.

--
Bill

=========================
I said "changed the physics of sailing foilers". Or ,in other words, until veal heel, foilers were sailed level or with a slight lee heel. I did not say he changed physics!


1) monofoilers originally used the sail for power and the hydrofoils for vertical lift and sometimes horizontal lift(lateral resistance) and sometimes vertical foils for horizontal lift.
2) when Veal "changed the physics of sailing foilers", the sail was used for power AND vertical lift, the hydrofoils for vertical lift AND horizontal lift, and the "veal heel" that allowed this also resulted in up to an approx. 20% increase in RM(with no additional crew movement relative to the boat), the unloading of the vertical foils and improved aerodynamics for the whole boat.

----------------
pictures show monofoilers before and after "veal heel":

[Chris Ostlind]

Doug,

What is up with the unnecessary wordsmithing when the proper definition works so well?

[Doug Lord]

Front page comments from SA:

"Mothballed

Former SA Sailor of the Year and International Moth god Rohan Veal hung up his wings on Saturday, leaving Bladerider without its most important salesman and marketeer and the Moth class without its most important figure for the past five years. Rumors of problems at Bladerider have been swirling around for months now, and the Mach 2's dominance over the formerly all-powerful Bladerider at Worlds saw Veal visibly frustrated in Cascade Locks - perhaps the proverbial straw that sent Rohan to a yacht brokerage job at Melbourne's posh Sandringham Yacht Club. Lord knows that traveling 3 weeks out of every month selling boats takes a toll out of you, and we certainly hope to see Veal back soon. Rarely does a single sailor have such a wide impact on worldwide sailing, and Veal did exactly that in spectacular fashion.

He didn't leave without a parting gift, though - 7 minutes of new headcam footage that shows just what it's like to fly above the water. "
www.rohanveal.com

09/14/09

[Doug Lord]

Congratulations to Bora Gulari for taking the long running Moth peak speed contest to over 30knots!


UPDATE:This record was set in 20 knots of wind-thats 1.5 times wind speed-most impressive!



http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/ind...post&id=118590

[Doug Lord]

I want to publically thank Jeff for updating the header on the Moth and Hydroptere threads with the new record/ speeds !

[Doug Lord]

Check this out for what worked and didn't at the 2009 Worlds:

http://philsmoths.blogspot.com/

[Doug Lord]

Nick Flutter-check out the wing tips: http://nickflutter.blogspot.com/

Adam May-great 2009 worlds pix: http://foilborne.blogspot.com/

Gulari-World Champion 2009: http://wetandreckless.blogspot.com/

[teknologika]

Doug,

that's not John Gilmour's blog, it's Adam May's.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by teknologika

Doug,

that's not John Gilmour's blog, it's Adam May's.

-----------------------------
Fixed. Don't know how I did that. Thanks.

[mdcf]

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but how is Veal Heal different from the windward lean on a windsurfer when the windward chine on the board is providing side force and the fin is generating a small amount of lift and the sail is contributing significant lift? I believe referred to as 'hooked up'?

[Doug Lord]

Windward heel on a foiler(veal heel) adds righting moment, unloads the vertical fins,uses the hydrofoil to help go upwind and uses the sail to unload the hydrofoils.
The additional righting moment can go as high as 20%....

[mdcf]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Windward heel on a foiler(veal heel) (1) adds righting moment, (2) unloads the vertical fins, (3) uses the hydrofoil to help go upwind and (4) uses the sail to unload the hydrofoils.
The additional righting moment can go as high as 20%....

2) and 4) are the same with a windsurfer, 3) I assume you mean that due to the lean the normal force of the foil is to windward. So you are partially replacing the effect of one foil (the vertical one) with the other (horizontal) foil? Essentially you have too much foil when going upwind when you can get lift from the sail. On 1) not sure I see how the righting moment comes into it, you have the crew way out on the windward side (cf. windsurfer) balanced by the lift of the sail, what other effect is there?

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by mdcf

2) and 4) are the same with a windsurfer, 3) I assume you mean that due to the lean the normal force of the foil is to windward. So you are partially replacing the effect of one foil (the vertical one) with the other (horizontal) foil? Essentially you have too much foil when going upwind when you can get lift from the sail. On 1) not sure I see how the righting moment comes into it, you have the crew way out on the windward side (cf. windsurfer) balanced by the lift of the sail, what other effect is there?

=======================
The xtra RM comes from the distance the center of lift of the foil is from the CG of the boat(horizontally). Compare a Moth sailed upright with the crew fully hiking to a drawing of the same boat with the crew fully hiking but heeled to weather 20 degrees. Altitude has virtually no effect on RM.
Also see this and the picture in 11 pages: