Moth on Foils: 30.31 knots (34.86 mph)

It's great because it hasn't been done before as far as I know. It's great because at one point in the gybe the wind is coming from dead ahead. It's great because Adam May took the time and made the effort to compile the data.

[bistros]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

It's great because it hasn't been done before as far as I know.

It isn't great because you failed to research for relevant studies and prior publications. This is your failing, not an indication of greatness.

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

It's great because at one point in the gybe the wind is coming from dead ahead.

If the boat is exceeding windspeed, and the boat gybes the apparent wind MUST come from dead ahead at one point. This isn't a new revelation due to this study. Happens all the time in iceboats - and I have sailed a DN through gybes exceeding windspeed frequently.

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

It's great because Adam May took the time and made the effort to compile the data.

It is nice that Adam May published this paper. Like all academic postings, it should be peer reviewed and then it's conclusions can be accepted or disputed. Upon peer review by people QUALIFIED to respond, the paper's value ("greatness") can be determined.

Doug, you fail to understand that anecdotal collection of other people's work is not a firm foundation for drawing conclusions in science. You also seem to think the Internet is a source of accurate and trustworthy information.

I'm pointing this out to you (again) as you represent yourself as an expert in all things foiling, and people reading this forum might believe you. There is a huge difference between you, Adam May and people like Tom Speer.

Many of your opinions and ideas are valid, but you (and I in this case) are not in a position to be endorsing Adam May's work. We can read it and see if our experience agrees, but we should not be offering opinions.

Cheers,

--
Bill

From Rohan Veals website(www.rohanveal.com) check out the new pictures taken at the recent skiff regatta.
======================
Check this foiler performance program from Alan Smith: http://dougculnane.blogspot.com/2009...ions-from.html

Fastest dinghy in the world sailing with one of the fastest keelboats in the world: (from www.rohanveal.com)

From Yachts and Yachting-new Hyde Sail:
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=145908

[Doug Lord]

From 2009(soon to be) World Champion Rohan Veal:

So I am not sure what the Foiler Moth Yardstick is going to be for 2009/10, but I would not be suprised if it is in the low 70's or even high 60's now. This would then put the Foiler Moth in the same league now as the A Class (71), F18 (70), 18' skiff (68), Taipan 5.7 with kite (67.5) and Tornado (65). Looking at these numbers though, I think the 18 footers should be around 65 with the Tornado and we should be around 68-69.

-----------------
Rohan has probably done more than anyone else in history to show the potential of bi-foil monofoiler technology-I hope he wins the upcoming Worlds!

[Doug Lord]

For the first time since bi-foil technology was introduced to the Moth a sailor from the United States is very close to possibly winning the Worlds.
Good Luck to Bora Gulari today!

LIVE coverage here now 2:16EST: http://www.justin.tv/onthewateranarchy Bora in second,race 1

Bora Wins!

Congratulations to the first American in history to win a Foiler Moth World Championship!

Results: http://www.mothworlds2009.org/2009CSTMothWorlds1.15.htm

[Chris Ostlind]

Since you spent so much time ridiculing Bora and praising your boy Veal before the Worlds... don't you think you owe the gentleman from Detroit a sincere and personal public apology for being such an ass?

While you are at it, do take the time to post the cumulative points totals for Gulari and Veal at the completion of the racing. The difference betwen these two is a chasm of skill that is not going to be easily remedied by Mr. Veal any time soon, if at all.

Veal has been a fine champion for the sport, but after this very convincing demonstration, he doesn't have anything even close to the same speed on the water as does Bora.

[Doug Lord]

I don't usually reply to your vicious, uninformed bullshit: I supported Bora publically as early as June 24th this year. I joked with Gulari about going the "wrong way" in one regatta and about saying the Moth was a "canard".
I have nothing but the highest respect for Bora as a sailor and for his hard work leading to this impressive victory.

[Chris Ostlind]

Viscious... ? Amusing take, Doug, but an extremely misplaced use of the word. Actually, you've been hounding Bora on a regular basis as to what you think is a weakness on his part. I've seen you mention it several times and it was not being expressed in a joking fashion.

You consistently picked Veal to win the Worlds and mentioned it at least five times on various fora up to the start of the regatta. You even mentioned your disappointment after the first day of sailing when your boy didn't wind up in the top three placings. The guard in this infant sport is changing, Doug. You're just not changing with it and the reality irks you to no end.

It's all there for anyone to read, so why act so coyly disengenuous now that you are as wrong as a person can get when it comes to picking a winner?

You dislike the guy (Bora). I know for a fact that he dislikes you, but that shouldn't stand in the way of being a man and admitting publicly that you have been proved wrong in your championing of Veal and total dissing of Gulari in the run-up to the regatta.

Instead, in your haste to slobber yet again at the feet of Veal, you have so totally missed the mark by overlooking the steady rise to stardom of an extremely talented sailor.

Just be a man and fess-up... Your actions will speak volumes about the kind of person you are.

[Chris Ostlind]

While your edited use of colorful emphasis is, indeed, splashy, it doesn't come close to addressing the issues as they are before us. (now, why would I think otherwise of such a clever guy as yourself, Doug?)

Below, you will see the quoted statement as made by you, Mr. Douglas Lord, way back on the 6th of June of this year. It's posted right above these current posts, unless you have the embarrassment of removing them from view through the use of a delete... ;-)

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

From 2009 (soon to be) World Champion Rohan Veal:
Rohan has probably done more than anyone else in history to show the potential of bi-foil monofoiler technology-I hope he wins the upcoming Worlds!

After Day One of the Moth Worlds and after being informed of the results for that part of the regatta, you had this to say...

" Thanks again, Nige! Great work! wierd result......

When asked just what that meant, you said this... "Eh, my pick didn't win....."

Your pick was Veal, who was already showing that he didn't have the stuff to push the leaders in this regatta. A reality that was born-out by the final results. A great Champion who was not on his game, watching as younger, stronger competitors not only set the pace, but left the former champ in their wakes.

Clearly, even on these pages (and so very much more creepy on the pages of Sailing Anarchy) you have shown yourself to be totally smitten with Rohan Veal, while doing everything you could to denigrate the integrity of Bora Gulari at every opportunity. So, now that Bora is the World Champ, you want us all to believe that you have always shown respect in even the most simple of fashions?

Whatever it is that you've been doing, it's a very long way from being respectful. And now, Bora is the International Moth Champion. Veal has been summarily supplanted, as all fine Champions are eventually and you are standing there pretending that you knew it was going to happen all along.

That's very funny material, Doug.

Tell me something... Has Veal ever asked you to quit following him around like a star-struck stage door puppy dog? Of course not. I'll bet that he hasn't even acknowledged your presence. I'll further bet that Bora won't give you the time of day from this point forward. He's in another place, now, Doug. One that is quite far away from your reach.

It's best that you apologize as quickly as you can and leave the guy alone.

[Doug Lord]

Good article by "Teknolgika" (Bruce McLeod) on Moth mainfoil development:

http://www.teknologika.com/mothblog/...in-hydrofoils/

Images from article/Bladerider foil=T/c=14%:

[Doug Lord]

Stats courtesy of Nige:
Sail# First Name Last Name Country Hull Design Builder Year Mast(s) Sail(s) Foil(s)
3383 Scott Babbage AUS Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2/CST Nano 6/CST M351 KA MLS10/KA MSL13 Mach2
3589 Devin Bader USA Assassin Assassin 2009 Southern North Assassin
3592 Lindsay Bergan USA Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA Mach2
tba Dalton Bergan USA Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2
3588 Anthony Boscolo USA Assassin Assassin 2009 Southern North Assassin
3197 Joe Bousquet USA Hungry Beaver Bousquet 2007 Burvill KA MSL12 Bousquet/Fastacraft/Gulari
Chris Cochrane CAN
3345 James Cole SIN Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Bladerider/CST Bladerider/KA Bladerider
NA Sean Couvreux USA Bladerider VRX TopKey 2009
88 Jack Driscoll USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2007 Bladerider KA MSL9 Bladerider
3146 Andrew Friend GBR Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Aardvark Hyde 2009 Bladerider
TBA Giovanni Galeotti BEL Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2
3457 Rob Gough AUS Bladerider VRX TopKey 2009 CST M353/Southern North V8 Bladerider
0 Bora Gulari USA Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2
TBA Kevin Hall NZL Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Southern Bladerider
3221 Hans Henken USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2007 Bladerider KA Bladerider
TBA Paul Kilkenny USA Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA Mach2
161 Morgan Larson USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 CST Quantum Bladerider
3283 Will Logan AUS Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 CST M353 North V8 Bladerider
3216 Adam Lowry USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2007 Southern PhatBoy North V10 Bladerider
3299 Andy Mack USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 KA Bladerider
3139 Zack Maxam USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2007 KA Bladerider
TBA Adam May GBR Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2
3380 Andrew McDougall AUS Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA MSL13.1 Mach2
3499 Charlie McKee USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 CST KA MSL10B/KA MSL13 Bladerider
3187 Jonathan McKee ISV Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2007 CST KA MSL10B/KA MSL13 Bladerider
3334 Bates McKee USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Bladerider
3258 Andy Mills CAN Prowler 4 Fastacraft 2006 KA MSL10B Fastacraft
3284 Nigel Oswald GBR Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA MSL13 Mach2
3456 Nathan Outteridge AUS Bladerider VRX TopKey 2009 CST Nano 6/CST M353 North V8 Bladerider
TBA Gerold Pauler GER
3381 Simon Payne GBR Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA MSL10 Mach2
na George Peet USA Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2
3347 James Phare GBR Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Burvill KA Bladerider
3248 Matt Pistay USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Bladerider
3387 Arnaud Psarofaghis SUI Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Southern North V10 Mach2
3247 Mikis Psarofaghis SUI Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 CST North Bladerider
TBA Glenn Raphael UAE Bladerider X8 McConaghy 2008 Southern Phatboy North V8/KA Bladerider
SIN Mark Robinson SIN Mach2 McConaghy 2009 Mach2 KA MSL10/KA MSL13 Mach2
3395 Chris Steele NZL Assassin Assassin 2009 Southern North Assassin
TBA Naomi Tachibana JPN Bladerider VRX Topkey 2009 CST M351 North V6 Bladerider
3455 Rohan Veal AUS Bladerider VRX TopKey 2009 Southern North V? Bladerider
3257 Karl Wittnebel USA Prowler 4 Fastacraft 2007 CST Raptor/North Wittnebel
tbd Tim Wadlow USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy Bladerider
3160 Chris Williams USA Bladerider X8 McConaghy Southern North V? Bladerider

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Good article by "Teknolgika" (Bruce McLeod) on Moth mainfoil development:

http://www.teknologika.com/mothblog/...in-hydrofoils/

Note none of the successful foils look like the monstrosities "designed" by The Lord of Non-Foiling.

Maybe that is why his non-foiler non-foiled.

[Doug Lord]

Check this foil out designed by Julian Bethwaite and used in the recent worlds
thanks to "composite components":