Moth on Foils: 30.31 knots (34.86 mph)

Amazing! I didn't realize that an Aussie 18 was in the fleet beaten by an F18 cat. Makes Rohans foiler Moth experience in beating F18's even more poignant!
--------------
It should be obvious that that neither Rohan nor I have EVER claimed the foiler Moth to be faster than any boat in non-foiling conditions! In those conditions its just another sea hugger. But with the constant improvement in bi-foiling technology the definition of "foiling conditions" is getting to lower windspeeds all the time.
==============================================
For those that have heard or read rumors of the Bladerider designer/developer leaving the company and of a MK2 Bladerider get the facts straight here:
Rohan Veal: Home Page
Address:http://www.rohanveal.com/ Changed:11:10 AM on Saturday, August 25, 2007

Check out the video referenced in post 532 from "Bladerider" on Dinghy Anarchy. Two 12 year olds
foiling!
Bladerider - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=53657&st=500&

[water addict]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

You may have sailed a three foil tri on just two foils and thats cool. Sam told me about neutralizing the wand on the windward foil but never mentioned what you describe. In fact, when I brought up saiing a monofoiler on just two foils he thought it was impossible-in hindsight probably because of the experience you describe.
There is no question that the Moth is the first sailboat of any type to be designed to sail on just two foils and to do so in a reliable manner.
Sam was not familiar with this kind of technology by his own admission but was impressed when I showed him the first bi-foil Moth sailing.I don't think he thought it would amount to much...

There was a windsurfer sailed on 1 foil back either 1979 or 1980. I saw the video for it.

Goin from 3 to 2 or 1 foil does not make it any simpler to sail.

Water, have you seen the Rush Randle(Neil Pryde) foilboards? They are windsurfers sailed with a variant of the "air chair" system which uses two foils on a single strut. See the thread "Foilboard Design" on this page.
In my opinion, a two foil hydrofoil COULD be the simplest foiler to sail-the Moth isn't- but with the right design additions something like it could be....
Did you watch the vid of the two 12 year olds foiling in my previous post?
-------------------------
Rush Randle - Extreme Watersportsman
Address:http://rushrandle.com/foilboards.htm Changed:6:35 PM on Wednesday, October 12, 2005

[water addict]

Yep, saw it.
Seen plenty of foils photos vids over the years.
Been invloved in foil-borne R&D work for the navy too. Seen all kinds of permutations through the years.
Cases in the navy/commercial world have not withstood the test of time. And I still have yet to see any applications or innovations that will have a significant chunk of recreational boaters out there on foils. Just my view though.

[DGreenwood]

Originally Posted by water addict

Yep, saw it.
Seen plenty of foils photos vids over the years.
Been invloved in foil-borne R&D work for the navy too. Seen all kinds of permutations through the years.
Cases in the navy/commercial world have not withstood the test of time. And I still have yet to see any applications or innovations that will have a significant chunk of recreational boaters out there on foils. Just my view though.

Ouch!---and Doug takes a nasty uppercut that he didn't see coming.

[water addict]

Originally Posted by DGreenwood

Ouch!---and Doug takes a nasty uppercut that he didn't see coming.

It wasn't meant that way, maybe foils will work in the future. I just am skeptical given my experience.

Originally Posted by water addict

maybe foils will work in the future. I just am skeptical given my experience.

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Water, have you sailed a foiler? I'm very interested in your experiences and how they have formed your opinion...

[water addict]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

------------
Water, have you sailed a foiler? I'm very interested in your experiences and how they have formed your opinion...

Doug I haven't sailed a foiler. Admittedly, I think they are pretty cool as I've said before.
My experience related to my job has been seeing the Navy investigate and build foiling patrol boats only to have them taken out of service because they cost too much to operate. Complex control systems with lots of parts that wear and break, and consume much of the space onboard made them a poor fit for service. Also been involved in R&D for combo foil and buoyancy/pod arrangements of varying types. It's always the dynamics that end up killing them- devil in the details. If the water surface was flat all the time, foils would be great.
As far as sailing, I've seen the vids. Pretty neat when the foilers are working- but lots of vids of crash and burns. I remember being very impressed with the tri-foiler back in the 80s(?), thinking that there was a control arrangement that might make foilers more mainstream. There was even an attempt at a production model if I remember right? But it never "took off" if you'll pardon the pun. I'd love to sail a foiler to try it out and play. But I have no desire to own one, as I get plenty of fun on regular sailboats. I like the interaction of the hull with the surface- the motion, spray, sound, connection with the environment are the large part of the appeal for me. Removing that would seem sort of sterile- like wearing a condom!

I just don't think foil sailboats will be a big chunk of recreational sailing. How has my sailing experience caused me to form this opinion? I'd go into my sailing background, but you'd be asleep faster than if you read the dictionary.

Interesting to compare Moth foiler speeds in 10 knots and average upwind and down with the new Foiler C cat.
Veal says:"Well, I thought it was a lot smoother, stable and slower than expected ,but it is still very early days of development."
See his comments here:
Rohan Veal: Home Page
Address:http://www.rohanveal.com/ Changed:10:24 PM on Tuesday, August 28, 2007
=====================
Foiler C: upwind in 10k= 13k
downwind in 10k= 18.7
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Foiler Moth: John Ilett 19 knots in 10-12knot breeze(heading unknown)
From "Foiler 1 Grand Prix": (1.5 year old data)
Average upwind: 11-14k(peaks to 17+)
Average downwind: 12-22k(peaks to 27.9)
----takeoff 6-7knots windspeed
Foiler1 GP
Address:http://www.foiler1.com/foiler_moth.html Changed:2:57 AM on Monday, March 6, 2006

Must read: Comments on Rohan, Moths, winning and not winning ,Fastacraft and the future from the #2 Foilr at the Moth Worlds- see the August 28th,2007 entry:
scott.projectsomewhere
Address:http://scott.projectsomewhere.com/

[Ed B]

I'm really not interested in the arguments here but I have to set you blokes straight on something.

In relation to sfs brass monkey race times being quoted and used as part of arguments you guys really need think about the context. It is a FUN, Mid winter weekend regatta. The majority of the sailors are not taking it all that seriously. To illustrate this, here are some things I witnessed occuring on boats who's times you blokes have used in your arguments:

- Boats missing the start by a few minutes
- Boats running past the finish to enjoy a ride in pressure, then coming back to finish
- Boats finishing incorrectly, taking a few minutes to work it out, then sailing back to finish correctly
- Boats capsizing
- Boats slowing down mid race to fix broken rigging
- Boats screwing up laylines and having to sail upwind to finish.
- Boats with ring-in crews/skippers
- Boats doing extra laps
- Boats sailing for speed not VMG
- Boats dodging harbour traffic

[Stephen Ditmore]

Photos of the launch of my Classic Moth have been posted to my gallery.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../500/ppuser/38

[Retired Geek]

Originally Posted by Stephen Ditmore

Photos of the launch of my Classic Moth have been posted to my gallery.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh.../500/ppuser/38

Stephen, not sure you needed that much RM for the breeze, but the company looks great :-)
RG

Congratulations, Stephen-she looks great!