Moth on Foils: 30.31 knots (34.86 mph)

[CT 249]

I think you may be overdoing it a bit, Chris. In many places (and from my experience Garda is one of them) kids are quite used to that sort of stuff and actually often think it's cool. These are German Optis who have taken the time to go to another country to a famously windy spot, so they're probably not beginners.

[Chris Ostlind]

Well, then, we will agree to disagree.

Kids often think stupid stuff is cool until on of them get hurt and then they say, "but I didn't do it on purpose". It matters little here if they are beginners or have a couple of years of sailing under their belts.

The person who should be observing a proper distance is the dude on the Moth. The Opti youth appear to be in a cohesive formation and this yokel is blasting along on their flank.

There's virtually no room for error here and it is dumb in the kindest of terms. If an accident were to happen what do you think would be the result... that the parents of these kids would have nothing to say, nor would they mount a suit to gain some determination of just who was being stupid?

Yes, you already know the answer to that one.

I've seen much worse outcomes from far more benign scenarios.

I will always err on the side of kids. I won't feel sorry for that position. There may come a day when you are grateful someone else did that on behalf of your own.

[foilr]

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

Well, then, we will agree to disagree.

Kids often think stupid stuff is cool until on of them get hurt and then they say, "but I didn't do it on purpose". It matters little here if they are beginners or have a couple of years of sailing under their belts.

The person who should be observing a proper distance is the dude on the Moth. The Opti youth appear to be in a cohesive formation and this yokel is blasting along on their flank.

There's virtually no room for error here and it is dumb in the kindest of terms. If an accident were to happen what do you think would be the result... that the parents of these kids would have nothing to say, nor would they mount a suit to gain some determination of just who was being stupid?

Yes, you already know the answer to that one.

I've seen much worse outcomes from far more benign scenarios.

I will always err on the side of kids. I won't feel sorry for that position. There may come a day when you are grateful someone else did that on behalf of your own.

Talk about off-topic!

But then what is the point of this thread exactly?

[Phil Stevo]

Chris O
Please do not let your contempt for Doug transfer to the whole of the moth class.
The bloke on the moth is Rohan Veal who has just proved he is about 20% better than the best of rest. He is very unlikely to lose control. He had only one or two swims in the whole WC regatta.
In any case if something goes wrong or brakes on a moth foiling at speed, the crash takes about one boat length, even if the skipper sometimes goes a little further. In these moderate conditions it would not even be a violent crash.
He has bugger all chance of hitting the closest oppi from that position.

Oppis and moths sail much closer than this out of starts without collisions.

Take a calm pill. This is a sport not a court room.

[casavecchia]

The picture was taken in March, I was there, saw it happen.
Rohan steered well clear around every Optimist.
No problems, not even a tiny perception of danger.
In the picture the boats look much closer then really were.

[Chris Ostlind]

For those of you who do not read the resource that is Sailing Anarchy, there's an interesting take on a speculative foil design on the front page of today's issue. http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

Especially interesting are the comments from the readers in the forum regarding this article. There's quite a collection of attitudes here... even one from regular contributor, Tom Speer. That is you, Tom, operating under the cloaked name of Basiliscus, isn't it? ;-)

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...howtopic=58612

I have a feeling that our favorite foilmeister, Doug Lord, is not going to share this with you, so view it at your own risk.

At least the guy has some vision but- as drawn- absolutely no competition for bi-foil technology.
But a few small mods might change that.....

[Baronvonrort]

Originally Posted by Baronvonrort

For the second year in a row the Brass Monkey Regatta has proven the foiling moth is no where near as fast as the hot air coming from Doug's computer.

For the 3rd year in a row at the brass monkey regatta has proven the foiling moth is no where near as fast as the hype coming from dougs internet TV.

Day 1 winds 10-25 knots.
Day 2 winds 8-12 knots.

Perfect foiling conditions and it was beaten by several different classes.

Bad day for the Moth guy I guess. In two races he was beaten by a Flying Dutchman! Ouch... An F18 won and it is interesting to note: a little over a year ago Rohan Veal beat fleet of F18's-at least according to his report of the second day of the 2006 Sauna. Veal has also raced against good sailors in the A class and the 49er and beat them. I guess you have to take the good with the bad and decide which is more representative of the foiler Moth's speed potential. Interesting that a cat beat all the skiffs! Congratulations to the winners.....

[Foiler4dapeople]

Doug,
Did you get a chance to have a sail of the Bladerider when Rohen was in the States?

No, I didn't. But I'm working with Tinho Dornellas of Calema Windsurfing to persuade Scott with radsailing in Largo to come over to Kelly Park in Merritt Island to demo the boat. Scott said he would and it will probably be in September. When it gets here I will sail it...
++++++++++++++++++++++++
For anyone in the state of Florida here is Scotts e-mail. Seems like a great guy and very serious about the Bladerider:

Saved e-mail message
Date: Sun, Aug 12, 2007, 9:30am To: lorsail@webtv.net ('Doug Lord'), sales@radsailing.com Subject: RE: SAIL/ Bladerider Enquiry
Hi Doug
I do plan on doing trips to the east coast on a regular basis. I was just in Miami last week. I was thinking of every 5 weeks or so I would come to a different sailing center on your coast. I will keep in contact and plan a trip to Tinho Dornellas Calema Windsurfing School. In the mean time if you find yourself in the Clearwater area, give me a call and you can take it for a sail.
Thanks for your interest.
Scott Taber
813-235-4413

[Chris Ostlind]

Among the many, many wonderful gag lines that could be used at this point, some over the top and some not... I'll just ask this simple question and we'll see if Doug can answer it honestly.

Does not the Moth Foiler have a practical weight limit for the driver in any given wind strength? Does not one actually have to get the boat foiling and under control to be able to say that One Foiled?

Aside from that fun topic, I'll have to make sure that I have a camera crew on hand for that episode so that we can have the hardcore goods as to whether this event truly takes place as advertised, and how long it takes if it does.

Please let us know the date and place, Doug. Don't be shy. I have lots of friends in Florida who are pro shooters and we can get you on YouTube for posterity. Those scoffers at Sailing Anarchy will be choking on their own words.

[foilr]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

No, I didn't

Why not? What could be more important than meeting Rohan, checking out the Bladerider and taking it for a sail? In your home state even?

[Chris Ostlind]

I couldn't wait for Doug to answer so I went to the Bladerider site myself.

The guys at BR state they have plans to ship 16 boats a month. That's 192 of these dudes a year. Wow! At that rate it will take 1,302 years to sell as many of them as there are Hobie 16's already.

OK, I'm sold. If they hit that figure, I will finally agree that Doug is right and the Moth Foiler is the true People's Foiler.

[PI Design]

I think this thread is getting a little silly.
Clearly the foiling Moth is quick, innovative, radical and (in many people's opinion) quite cool. It is not a boat for the masses (as even Doug admits) and is beyond the capability/patience/pocket of a large number of sailors. Whilst very quick (esp for an 11footer) it is not quicker, across a range of courses and conditions, than a number of cats, nor probably the 49er and skiff classes.
The Blade Rider team have hyped their boat way too much and made several unsubstantiated claims in the past (e.g. "easiest boat in the world to rig"!), which has, in my opinion done them no favours at all.
Perhaps the most telling point is that even Doug, who is surely the most vocal supporter of the concept around, has not put his money where his mouth his and bought one (although he did build a (unsuccessful) foiling boat, so credit due). If he won't buy one why should anyone else?