Moth on Foils: 30.31 knots (34.86 mph)

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

You mentioned " the crap you have to go thru to rig a foiler"-what crap? On my 16 the foils retract and the boat is trailered like any normal dinghy. It takes NO MORE time to rig than any other 16 footer. ... So since you've never sailed a foiler and have no clue what is going on and what is possible in foiler design I'd quit pontificating about stuff you obviousy know nothing about.
These are early days in bi-foil monofoiler design; the Moth has set the performance standard- but other boats are being developed that will be much easier to sail and rig-it's just a matter of time before the Peoples Foiler emerges that puts it all together. In the meantime, the extraordinary exploits and achievements of the foiler Moth will continue to dazzle sailors (and non sailors) everywhere and baffle it's detractors -detractors who increasingly will be left in the wake of a true revolution in sailing.

Doug, I've misplaced the photos of your 16 up on foils ... could you re-post them?

If you won't or can't, how credible are you as a source about foiler design? Yet you pontificate about foilers ... ?

Do you think that if you make the same statements over and over again they will become true? Since foiling has been around for decades, it would seem that the "true revolution in sailing" exists only in some alternate reality, it sure isn't taking the sailing world by storm from where I sit ... oh wait, there is another revolution in sailing that has been around for decades ... didn't somebody come up with tilting keels and two rudders? That one isn't setting the world afire either.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by CT 249

I don't respond to your posts to try to convince you. There's no hope of that. I am merely trying to throw up some information to balance your propoganda. It's not worth the effort so I won't reply to any posts again.

Getting people to stop posting counterpoint is SOP. When people stop posting differing opinions and stop asking for facts to be supported, you have "Won" the debate. Are you conceding? Has another voice of reason been silenced?

[RHough]

"Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2003 10:25 pm

It's been a month since the last post. Where are the pictures showing the boat up on it's foils?"

Link:
aeroSKIFF - One Design Canting Keel Racing Machine

[Chris Ostlind]

Back to the future with Doug Lord, where it seems that the more these techy things change, the more they stay the same.

With that little bit of sadness out of the way...

I am hereby announcing the next big thing in 10 foot skiffs, the anti-gravity propulsion device for sailors has arrived!

The neGravSKIFF.

Faster than any foiling Moth. Certainly faster than all of the Lordspeak hype that can be slung from a keyboard and able to be built and delivered at your local Sam's Club for an astoundingly low, Made in China, price you simply won't believe.

Not a boat under 20' that will touch the damn thing. Rough conditions don't matter to the neGravSKIFF, because we don't need no stinkin' conditions... we provide our own!

The future is near. Just don't ask me when that might be

Thanks , CT. You need a reality check when you say I denigrated Phil; after saying I had immense respect for him I merely said he was wrong in saying only Moths could foil or foil upwind and proved it with facts not speculation. Further ,on the Moth forum and this forum I have pointed to something Phil wrote as one of the most impressive foiler plugs ever written by anybody.
---------------
Boogie, Tinho says hey; he backed you up-to a point-saying he could pump the right board up in 5 knots with a top speed on a plane of 12 knots(Bladerider foiler claims 14 in 5-close enough for jazz).... He also said you made among the best windsurfer foils in the world-cool! I stand more or less corrected-and I'm glad I do. I've never seen anybody do the deed on a board but I'm glad it's possible; it's great for sailing even if you do have to use the auxiliary
to power up!
-----------------------
Mr. Hough you asked about the aeroskiff 16 prototype : while the boat has foiled and has been a great test bed and learning experience for me it no longer exists. Actually, I'm proud to say that I just delivered the boat to Tinho Dornellas' Calema Windsurfing/ Sailing School at Kelly Park in Merritt Island ,Fl. minus the hydrofoils and rig. I included a dolly , Dotan kickup rudder and Fastacraft daggerboard to replace the foil sets and Tinho will supply a rig so the boat can take on a new life helping kids learn about sailing. The aeroskiff rig, much of the hardware(that Tinho doesn't need) and the foils will be used on my new boat described elsewhere on this forum. Delivering that boat was one of the best"ups" I've ever had! So thanks for asking RHOUGH!

[Chris Ostlind]

"... I just delivered the boat to Calema Windsurfing/ Sailing School ... minus the hydrofoils and rig."

You mean to tell me that after all that heavy duty smack talk at the front end of this year, that you haven't done one lick of work on the so-called, People's Foiler, since then?

Yep, that sure does qualify as an important project for the sailing world allrighteeo!

My 9 yr. old nephew has finished a personal canoe in my shop while you were doing zip.

Behold the power of hot air.

Just stumbled across this on Dinghy Anarchy:
From "Suppenhelle" Berlin, Germany post #15

"Hi, just to support Nige: I'm 40 something 80+ kgs and experiencing loads of fun on a hydrofoiled Moth. Nothing to compare to that. Sailing currently a Mistress 3 I can confirm that the boat is capable of carrying almost 90kgs of sailor. without breaking anything.
Cheers, Burkh"

--------
The thread this post is from:
Need a new Single Hander - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...d=789672&st=0&

Extraordinary foiler Moth pix:
index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=28677
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=post&id=28677

[Chris Ostlind]

It had to be from Teutonic lore.

To paraphrase Roy Scheider's Sheriff in the movie Jaws, "I think you're gonna need a bigger set of foils, and a bigger sail and a bigger... well you're gonna need them to be bigger and let's just leave it at that, Doug"

If that photo that was posted by Hough earlier today is actually you, Mr. Lord, please exercise due caution when setting sail on any foiler that can suspend your person. We need you here.

[RHough]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

Mr. Hough you asked about the aeroskiff 16 prototype : while the boat has foiled and has been a great test bed and learning experience for me it no longer exists.

Is there evidence that the boat foiled?

These are all the photos that I could find: AeroSkiff(tm)

Not saying I doubt that it did, only that I have not seen any proof ...

It just seems odd that there are photos and video of your Trimaran Foiler working quite well and the RC boats with spinnakers, but nothing about a single track foiler ... what's up with that?

BTW: I you have not checked out Doug's RC boats follow this link. The man is very clever, the spinnaker system is beyond cool!

[frosh]

Doug, I have just come across a report from a source that you hold in utmost respect, and throws a new light on some of the disadvantages of foiler Moths that you have conveniently neglected to inform us about.
I quote from a very recent posting from the IC forum.

Phil Stevenson



Australia
57 Posts
Posted - 30 June 2006 : 14:16:36
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim, The foil moths sail all sorts of different angles depending on crew weight and wind pressure. Small guys with big winds go very deep (Gybe through 50deg maybe) but big guys like me in 10kts just go back and forwards cross wind and get nowhere (gybe through 180). I can not get downwind much better than a I do without foils until it is over 15kts.

Hows your geometry? Better than your rithmetic, I hope!

Do You understand the profound implication of this??

Yes, you might have to remove your damn foils and just chuck em, to to save your self.

You've heard of the legend of the Flying Dutchman; no! not that one by Van Essen, that is one fine dinghy, the other one. I understand that to this day it roams the Bermuda triangle with a hot meal on the galley stove and a half smoked cigar in the ashtray, still smouldering. To this day the crew has never been found.

Why thank you ,Mr. Hough. As to the aeroSKIFF 16 I have no "evidence" other than my word-nor do I require any. The boat used a manual altitude control system that was difficult to use but worked after a few miscues. I would have preferred pictures and videos but the boat didn't really meet my criteria for a production prototype so it wasn't worth investing in a paid photog ; however, the boat did ok foiling in about 9-10 knots of wind- after initially semifoiling because of an AOA problem with the mainfoil. I was hoping the it would be good enough to be a production prototype-it wasn't and will now teach kids about sailing-a good thing for any boat. I learned a lot from the 16 and I'm glad it will retire inspiring others.(see below)
---------------
As to the F3-the worlds first production RC multifoiler- there are many pictures and some video on the site( www.microsail.com ) . But there were three other RC foilers that worked but were not brought to production(yet): 1) the microMOTH-a bitch to sail compared to the F3 but very fast with spectacular crashes(unlike the F3 which has never capsized or pitchpoled when set up properly), 2) the aeroSKIFF canting keel foiler-as far -as I know it is the first keel boat of any type to foil but was very hard to control and much too expensive to become a product and finally,3) the x3 multifoiler with retractable foils-similar to the F3 except designed to fit in the F48 class necessitating a way to ditch the foils in lite air. Great system, lite and works very well....
--------------------
More on the 16: it is way too much for me to handle singlehanded even with the mods I intended to make. So after much discussion I'm building a new boat-a sit inside-foiler designed to foil offwind only- initially.Also designed to be able to be powered up substantially when I learn how to handle the ballast system.

For poor Mr. Frosh:

Just stumbled across this on Dinghy Anarchy:
From "Suppenhelle" Berlin, Germany post #15

"Hi, just to support Nige: I'm 40 something 80+ kgs and experiencing loads of fun on a hydrofoiled Moth. Nothing to compare to that. Sailing currently a Mistress 3 I can confirm that the boat is capable of carrying almost 90kgs of sailor. without breaking anything.
Cheers, Burkh"

--------
The thread this post is from:
Need a new Single Hander - Sailing Anarchy Forums
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...d=789672&st=0&

Extraordinary foiler Moth pix:
index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=28677
Address:http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=post&id=28677
=============
Also note that Sam Pascoe who also is "heavy" set the Moth class speed record in the UK just prior to Rohans recent achievement.

[sigurd]

"http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums...=post&id=28677"

The front foil looks like it is off the centerline and is bent? Whats this setup? Any more pics that show how it works?

Sigurd, I think what you may be seeing is the altitude control system wand-which, in the picture, is curved. On Prowlers it is mounted on the stb side at the bow.
-----------
In case you don't know: the wand "senses" the water level by dragging in it and is preset for a specific altitude. It is connected to the flap on the main foil.
The rudder foil also has a flap which is adjusted by use of a twist grip on the hiking stik.
This particular boat belongs to Rohan Veal the current(?) class World Champion. The next Worlds is coming up shortly...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Read this if you are interested in more detail on foiler Moth development including the dispelling of some popular misconceptions. This article appeared in Seahorse( I think) and is now on the Aussie Moth site. Well worth the read:
A History of Change - International Moths to Dinghy Foilers
Address:http://www.moth.asn.au/reports/foilers_may_2004.html Changed:9:11 PM on Tuesday, June 1, 2004

[frosh]

Hi Doug, and I quote:
Post 157 7/1/2006
Just stumbled across this on Dinghy Anarchy:
From "Suppenhelle" Berlin, Germany post #15

"Hi, just to support Nige: I'm 40 something 80+ kgs and experiencing loads of fun on a hydrofoiled Moth. Nothing to compare to that. Sailing currently a Mistress 3 I can confirm that the boat is capable of carrying almost 90kgs of sailor. without breaking anything.
Cheers, Burkh"

Post 162 7/1/2006
Just stumbled across this on Dinghy Anarchy:
From "Suppenhelle" Berlin, Germany post #15

"Hi, just to support Nige: I'm 40 something 80+ kgs and experiencing loads of fun on a hydrofoiled Moth. Nothing to compare to that. Sailing currently a Mistress 3 I can confirm that the boat is capable of carrying almost 90kgs of sailor. without breaking anything.
Cheers, Burkh"

What am I deaf or something? I saw it the first time! (for what it is worth!)

If repeating hoary old "facts you should know, according to Doug Lord" or repeatedly posting the same URL is going to convince anybody that your "facts" are valid then you have a rude shock in store, when one day the truth hits you!