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  #1  
Old 01-08-2010, 05:26 PM
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Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov

Here is a monohull that may break a lot of records. I'm hoping Mr. Murnikov will post more information here. I ,for one, would like to know his opinion on lifting foils for a boat of this size.
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Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-speed-dream-vlad-murnikov.jpg  
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File Type: pdf Speed Dream-Vlad Murnikov.pdf (285.6 KB, 578 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-08-2010, 06:54 PM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Doug,

Why are you posting this now, when it has already been posted by Paul B some three days ago on the Flying Canting Keel thread at post #16

Flying Canting Keel-Extraordinary Innovation!

What's going on that you refuse to acknowledge that Paul had the scoop on this bit, pdf file and all, on another thread that is now three days old and that you need to replicate the posting of the material?

Cuts and pastes are part of spreading the info, but come on, bud, do this with some measure of freshness, or don't do it at all.

Please ask Jeff to dump this thread as a replication of what is already on the Forum.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2010, 05:44 PM
bistros bistros is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Here is a monohull that may break a lot of records. I'm hoping Mr. Murnikov will post more information here. I ,for one, would like to know his opinion on lifting foils for a boat of this size.
Murnikov's last notable attempt at a production boat was the over-hyped MX-Ray. I wonder what the return on investment was for that design? I've still got a copy of the promo video for the MX Ray somewhere.

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Old 01-09-2010, 06:08 PM
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From BYM Sailing and Sport: ( http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=64330 ) and press release.

Murnikov says his unique SpeedDream concept improves upon the oncerevolutionary FAZISI blueprint and advances the scientific art of boat design into uncharted territory. Taking full benefit of cutting-edge ideas, materials, and technologies, his finished boat will feature an extremely light 100 feet long hull weighting only 18 tons. It's slender triangular shape with super-sharp wavepiercing bow will possess extremely low water resistance and will cut through waves without pitching, slamming, or slowing. Awesomely high speed will result from efficiency, not just raw power. A canting keel on an 18-foot strut and specially designed hydrofoils will provide ample stability to carry a generous sail plan on a 120-foot carbon fiber mast. Since, at fast speeds, the deck will submerge frequently, it will be sculptured to shed water quickly, reduce resistance, and provide sufficient protection for the crew.
=================
Hydrofoil system seems to be somewhat similar to the DSS system...
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Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-speed-dream-3.jpg  Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-speed-dream-4.jpg  
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Old 01-09-2010, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bistros View Post
Murnikov's last notable attempt at a production boat was the over-hyped MX-Ray. I wonder what the return on investment was for that design? I've still got a copy of the promo video for the MX Ray somewhere.

--
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-------------------------------
Murnikovs design,the MX-20 was the 1995 Sailing World Boat of the Year! As best I can tell both boats were introduced at about the same time.
http://www.sailelan.com/brokerage.htm
----
Murnikov designed the first Russian entry in the Whitbread Ocean Race:

Murnikov was designer and project leader of FAZISI, Russia's first-ever entry in the Whitbread Round the World Race, /the/ premier oceanic sailing competition in the world, now known as the Volvo Ocean Race. In the 1989-90 Whitbread Race, not only did the remarkable FAZISI with its crew of novice sailors, overcome impossible odds to place 11th in a field of 23, it posted the next-to-longest 24-hour run racking up a then-incredible 386 miles in a single day.Murnikov says his unique SpeedDream concept improves upon the once- revolutionary FAZISI blueprint and advances the scientific art of boat design.
All quite notable designs.....
----
MX-20 and Fazisi:
Attached Thumbnails
Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-mx-20-murnikov-sailing-world-boat-year-1995.jpg  Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-fazisi_first_sailing.gif  
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:45 AM
Chris Ostlind Chris Ostlind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post

... the MX-20 was the 1995 Sailing World Boat of the Year!

And the MX20 is where, right now, in the pantheon of competitive boats in the 20 foot class?

Looks to me like SW bought and ate the promo thing for that boat and it went absolutely nowhere, right after that award.

Compare that boat to the Ultimate 20, which has a nice Class organization, with many, many boats on the water and you get a clear picture as to the value of the MX-20 in real terms.

When one Googles MX-20 Class Association, this is what shows-up http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

When one Googles, MX-20 Sailboat, this is what pops-up on Google...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Not exactly convincing material when one wishes to use the Murnikov design as a power point in an argument, is it?
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2010, 03:28 AM
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Ops, this concept is under discussion in this forum also!
Seems no real engineering behind, only pictures...
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:29 PM
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Speed Dream Flies

I want to thank Vlad Murnikov for the e-mail he just sent. This is a quote from that e-mail in which he answers my question regarding hydrofoils. Posted here with permission:

"As for your question regarding hydrofoils, we are considering using them
to both enhance stability and to partially lift the boat out of water.
In a configuration we are working on at the moment, the wing would
generate lift to offset up to 50% of boat's displacement. As result,
SpeedDream would have virtual displacement of only 9 tons, while
generating RM of over 100tm. It gives SpeedDream the same power ratio as
Banque Populaire, current Transatlantic record holder. Assuming also
that SpeedDream's planing hull will generate significantly less drag
than trimaran's displacement-type hull with its tremendous wetted
surface, we believe that we've got a good shot at setting the speed
record. Naturally, we are venturing into totally uncharted territory
here, and only time will tell whether our assumptions are right.
Wish us luck. :-)
Cheers,
Vlad "
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:10 PM
Munter Munter is offline
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Seems like mostly dream and not much speed yet.

Good luck to them but grand pronouncements about record breaking this and fastest ever that this early on in the project seem a little premature.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munter View Post
Seems like mostly dream and not much speed yet.

Good luck to them but grand pronouncements about record breaking this and fastest ever that this early on in the project seem a little premature.
===================
Geez, if you're going to try to do anything significant you have to have a target to aim for! The guy is putting a project together to try to do a specific thing-should he not say what it is he's trying to do?
The info on his thinking on foils was quite detailed -and significant: no monohull keelboat has ever been designed(that I know of) to sail with 50% of its displacement supported by hydrofoils-and Vlad is doing it. More power to him!
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:19 PM
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I wonder if there is any funding behind this project.
Could be a gamble for someone's money
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  #12  
Old 01-10-2010, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
===================
Geez, if you're going to try to do anything significant you have to have a target to aim for! The guy is putting a project together to try to do a specific thing-should he not say what it is he's trying to do?
The info on his thinking on foils was quite detailed -and significant: no monohull keelboat has ever been designed(that I know of) to sail with 50% of its displacement supported by hydrofoils-and Vlad is doing it. More power to him!
But does it make any sense to have boat partly supported by hydrofoils, but still having belly in water creating enormous wave drag, and appendages (foils and keel) contributing to drag also? If the hull is planning, then why we are talking about length (not really important for planning mode), and about wavepiercing (can hardly be associated with planning)? Moreover, boat with such configuration will be dynamically unstable (pitch, heel) with positions of foils shown. Add structural problems that are likely to be experienced...

Seems there is no analysis/engineering behind, just a sketch of dreamer.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alik View Post
But does it make any sense to have boat partly supported by hydrofoils, but still having belly in water creating enormous wave drag, and appendages (foils and keel) contributing to drag also? If the hull is planning, then why we are talking about length (not really important for planning mode), and about wavepiercing (can hardly be associated with planning)? Moreover, boat with such configuration will be dynamically unstable (pitch, heel) with positions of foils shown. Add structural problems that are likely to be experienced...

Seems there is no analysis/engineering behind, just a sketch of dreamer.
=====================
I think history proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Murnikov is a doer , not just a dreamer. Foil assist has proved workable on multihull displacement hulls where up to 70% of the displacement is supported by a single curved hydrofoil:foil assisted planing is not a stretch at all. Parliers planing catamaran used rudder t-foils in combination with a stepped planing hull. And Eugene Clements single stepped power boat hulls rely on a surface piercing foil for pitch control. Clements has told me that within certain parameters his system could work on a planing hull sailboat.
--
If you read the press release in the first post then you may have also noticed the caveat that this is a project under development and that the sketches are meant to give a relatively accurate impression of the concept but they are not design renderings. I imagine that some details will be left for us to speculate on so as not to give away the farm.....
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
=====================
I think history proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that Murnikov is a doer , not just a dreamer. Foil assist has proved workable on multihull displacement hulls where up to 70% of the displacement is supported by a single curved hydrofoil:foil assisted planing is not a stretch at all. Parliers planing catamaran used rudder t-foils in combination with a stepped planing hull. And Eugene Clements single stepped power boat hulls rely on a surface piercing foil for pitch control. Clements has told me that within certain parameters his system could work on a planing hull sailboat.
My educated guess is that they can get more speed by eliminating the keel, and providing heel resistance by hydrofoils on outriggers.

Quote:
If you read the press release in the first post then you may have also noticed the caveat that this is a project under development and that the sketches are meant to give a relatively accurate impression of the concept but they are not design renderings. I imagine that some details will be left for us to speculate on so as not to give away the farm.....
This press realease shows only the intention to develop something unusual...
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  #15  
Old 01-10-2010, 10:37 PM
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My educated guess is that they can get more speed by eliminating the keel, and providing heel resistance by hydrofoils on outriggers.
--------------------
Would it still be a monohull? You know, the bureaucrats in the Moth class classified the foil system below as a "multihull" configuration and outlawed it from Class competition. I think any boat that wants to set a monohull record may have to consider things like that.
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Monohull Speed: Speed Dream by Vlad Murnikov-foiler_8.jpg  
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