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  #1  
Old 04-12-2015, 02:20 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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Mini rules revolution?

Hi,

I found an article:

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/cour...mini-transat-/

in French, so I may not understand it correctly.
Look at this:


S.M. : Après le coup de canon, on a le droit de sortir du cadre des trois mètres, donc de mettre des appendices qui offrent une portance hydrodynamique (mais pas hydrostatique pour éviter les « flotteurs ») dans la limite des 6,50 mètres de large. La largeur maximale du cadre actuel semble très large pour les architectes à l’heure actuelle…

Voilesetvoiliers.com : C’est bien libellé dans le texte de jauge ?
S.M. : En cas de doute, la Commission Technique est apte à répondre à toutes questions sur l’interprétation de la jauge. A ce jour, nous voulons rester dans l’esprit de l’écriture originelle de la jauge et donc, ne pas autoriser les multicoques. L’objet est de traverser l’Atlantique sur de petits bateaux en toute sécurité. Cette ouverture aux foils est aussi clairement une réponse à la tendance des scows, type Magnum. Mais David Raison, le concepteur est parfaitement au courant puisqu’il fait partie du conseil d’administration comme trésorier de la classe Mini.


If I understand correctly, they claim that the appendages (but not floats) can be unfolded above the 3m width limit, except the measurement and start procedure.

That would be a revolution. In the current edition of class rules, the maximum width 3m includes appendages - but in fact there is no mention, whether the width is taken in measurement trim only, or in sailing conditions.

Several years ago I asked the Mini class committee a similar question, and the answer was very restrictive. According to that, no appendage in any conditions can stretch above 1.5m from the axis of symmetry (so, the movable DSS foils are also strictly limited).

If that interpretation has changed, it is a revolution. This makes possible to build not only a foil-assisted or foil-stabilized Mini boat, but just a hydropter or a trifoiler.

Have anybody heard more details about such a change in Mini rules? Or is it a Stan Mastard's wishful thinking only?

regards

krzys
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  #2  
Old 04-12-2015, 05:10 AM
Gary Baigent Gary Baigent is offline
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If how I interpret is correct, the class is legally now 6.5 metres square.
But floats are not intended/allowed? Just foils.
No one is going to build a square monohull? Well, they could - but would it work?
So how I interpret means beam/beams out from hull to foils.
Are they meaning trimaran purist foiler? If so, that is radical.
But in early Mini-Transat days, there was talk of allowing water ballast tank/float cantilevered on a pole to windward. So this type of outside-the-box thinking was there from day 1.
What I envisage is sort of a Holtom Foiler type, triangular float/foil - with buoyancy in the foil top area.
If my interpretation is correct, that is. But sounds too good to be true.
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  #3  
Old 04-12-2015, 07:46 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Well, I don't know of any recent rule interpretations other than that DSS is legal:

DSS equipped mini:
Attached Thumbnails
Mini rules revolution?-dss-mini-daily-sail.jpg  Mini rules revolution?-dss-isotop-sa-mystery.jpg  
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Old 04-12-2015, 09:26 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Well, I don't know of any recent rule interpretations other than that DSS is legal:
10 years ago it wouldn't be legal, now it is. But this was a minor change in compare to 6.5m wide appendages.

I checked, that Stan Maslard is a president of Classe Mini, so his "wishful thinking" may be considered as a law

Now, a boat similar as Blue Arrow
http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/blue.htm
can meet the Mini rules, if only the crossbeam is foldable. This will make all present designs obsolete (personally, I am very glad ).

BTW, do you have any information about race results of the DSS-stabilized Mini?

regards

krzys
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Old 04-12-2015, 11:31 AM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Dss

Quote:
Originally Posted by myszek View Post
10 years ago it wouldn't be legal, now it is. But this was a minor change in compare to 6.5m wide appendages.

I checked, that Stan Maslard is a president of Classe Mini, so his "wishful thinking" may be considered as a law

Now, a boat similar as Blue Arrow
http://www.americas-cup-history.at/english/blue.htm
can meet the Mini rules, if only the crossbeam is foldable. This will make all present designs obsolete (personally, I am very glad ).

BTW, do you have any information about race results of the DSS-stabilized Mini?

regards

krzys
====================
Just that the project is temporarily short of money....
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  #6  
Old 04-13-2015, 02:27 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Lord View Post
Just that the project is temporarily short of money....
What a pity... and what a nonsense: the most promising boat in her class can't prove her advantages because of the money problems.

Very sad.

krzys
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:49 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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So, will a new generation Mini look like this?
Do they really want it?

regards

krzys
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2016, 05:05 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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I guess they do...
New edition of Mini rules:
http://www.classemini.com/?mode=documents
contains the following:
J-20 APPENDAGES
The following are defined as appendages: rudders, daggerboards, foils, fin and any other device aspiring to create a hydrodynamic lift.
Appendages can increase the beam defined in J-3 once the start has been taken. However, the beam must not exceed 6,50 meters in the widest configuration.
Once the starting line has been crossed, appendages can increase the draft beyond the limit determined in J-4.

This opens the way for such "Bruce-foiled Moths" as above, or even for the modern versions of the old Monitor!

regards

krzys
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Mini rules revolution?-monitor_high_flying.jpg  
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2016, 10:28 AM
Konstanty Konstanty is offline
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What do you think about monohull proa in mini, with quasi rectangular asymmetric planing hull, asymmetrically placed Flying keel, asymetrycnie posed 180 degree rotating reefing wingsail rotating two T-foils?

Last edited by Konstanty : 12-14-2016 at 12:13 AM.
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:42 AM
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myszek myszek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstanty View Post
What do you think about proa in mini with one hull,
There can be a problem with the escape hatch, that has explicitely has to be fitted on the transom. Where to place it in the double-ended hull?

regards

krzys
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Old 12-12-2016, 10:56 AM
Konstanty Konstanty is offline
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In the windward parts something to be invented.
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2016, 12:55 PM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myszek View Post
. This will make all present designs obsolete (personally, I am very glad ).
Why are you glad that the fleet may now have no competitive boats?

Why are you glad that all the people who currently own boats may find them worthless?

What has happened to the value of your own boat?
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2016, 12:57 PM
CT249 CT249 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konstanty View Post
What do you think about proa in mini with one hull, with quasi rectangular asymmetric planing hull, asymmetrically placed Flying keel, asymetrycnie posed180 degree rotating reefing wingsail rotating two T-foil?
I'd say it's a fantasy. Has the person who dreamed it up done much ocean racing and won many championships?
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Old 12-12-2016, 02:59 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Sea Air--Welbourn Foils

A potentially great new Mini:

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  #15  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:04 PM
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Doug Lord Doug Lord is offline
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Arkema

A brilliant design and the first full flying Mini-the shape of things to come-more or less. The build method on this boat and possibly the wing seem like they are as advanced as the foils. Exciting! This boat shows how little the Vendee(IMOCA) Rules would have to change to allow fully flying foiling rather than tail dragging foil assist:
Seems like a great direction for the Mini's!

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