Maltese Falcon ... hit or miss?

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by charmc

No, Perini Navi. They had also bought a yard in Turkey; that's where she was built.

Here's some info on the Turkish yard and a photo of the vessel prior to Tom Perkin's purchase
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/8443-post2.html

[lazeyjack]

really!! Perini, yes that boat is SOOOOO Perini,
well a few years back they rebuilt the e/r and pump rooms of one down in Ak NZ according to my mate who got the subcontract, she was a bloody nightmare
perini neevr ever got there transoms right, I mean just a big slab of metal with a door they could have done this

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by nflutter

heres a picture. top one is the broad current concept as far as im aware, middle has a mast fairing (to reduce drag and possible provide some lift) and bottom has a double skin sail. the benefit of the double skin sollution is that the drag and areodynamic inteference of the mast is completely gone.

I have yet to be able to work out a double skin sail arrangement for the Dynarig. I've given it some considerable thought, but not worked on it that throughly yet.

Here is one of my thoughts on reducing the cost and complexity of the Maltese arrangement as expressed to a recent client inquiry:
In reference to our phone conversation last week about a 40-ish multihull for your charter business, and your inquiry about my Dynarig vessel, I offer a few quick observations.

Unlike my 'single-masted ketch' design that I feel is not necessarily appropriate for a vessel of less than 45 feet, the DynaRig is appropriate for this smaller size vessel. In fact a '3-panel' dynarig might be considered rather than the 4 panels of my new 63 foot DynaRig cat design, or the 5 panels of Falcon. However, I would still favor the 4 panel configuration, as it offers more variation in reef-able sail areas. And with my simplified sail furling mechanisms, it doesn't add that much weight or complication to the overall rig.


Falcon's dynarig was complicated by requiring the sails to be furled up inside the mast thru a hollow slot on one side;

1) the mast itself needed a slot in itself all the way down one side of the already weaker side of an elliptical cross-section. This necessitated an internal structure be built into the carbon mast section to reinforce it at the slot area

2) the furling mechanism then needed to be built inside the mast section, and a complicated track mechanism was required to guide the edges of the sails out onto the bridges to the yardarms & the yardarms themselves



I am proposing a much simpler furling and track mechanism for this modern square-rigger concept:

1) The mast will not have internal stowage of the sails, so no slot is required, nor internal support structure. It will be a simple elliptical section that will taper at either end to a smaller section at the top and a circular section at the bottom...not that much more complicated than an ordinary carbon mast for a sloop rigged vessel with a mainsail attached. It might also be a 'sealed unit' for ultimate flotation purposes.

2) Each rectangular sail will furl around a 'wire' (PBO, Kevlar, Spectra, carbon, etc) sewn across its mid-girth, and having eyes at both ends that clevis pin into 'continuous line furling drums' as you might find on Code' type reaching sails. The sails are constructed of low-tech, light-weight ordinary Dacron, and are of such relatively small dimensions that when furled around a very small diameter 'wire', they present a very small diameter package to the elements when 'stowed away'. Each individual sail panel can be quickly and easily replaced, and inexpensively as well.

3) The furling drums are incorporated into the leading edges of the yardarms/bridges so as to present less windage, and they are 'stacked' up vertically end to end in a line such that they 'share' bearings at either end. One small electric motor drives each panel for furling. For each panel of sail there are two (top & bottom) additional motors to unfurl the sail.

4) The yardarm 'bridges' can be shorter in length than Falcon's with many inherent advantages including the more readily usable 'forestay arrangement' with or without a 'code' type reaching sail. Shorter lever arms requires less power to rotate the rig as a whole.

5) Three of the yardarms are of equal length thus less production cost...in fact probably these three would be only slightly more expensive than the elaborate furling/stowing booms now found on many 'ordinary', modern, short-handed sloop rigs.

6) The low-tech, Dacron sails of this rig should present some considerable savings over those modern sails for Bermudan rigs, and help offset the other initial extra cost of the Dynarig.

7) The sealed mast and yardarms could offer the flotation for the ultimate non-capsizing protection.

These proposed changes to the original Falcon's interpretation of the DynaRig concept should result in a less expensive version, which is just as viable in sailing characteristics as the Maltese Falcon is proving to be.

[brian eiland]

Here are 3 pretty good sailing photos of Falcon at the 'bucket' race in St Barts

...photos courtesy of Allan Prior/Prior Yacht Management ©2007

[lazeyjack]

amazin photos Brian, and you are really into it eh
i spose reefing and furling is hydraulic, but they would be small motors aloft?

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

i spose reefing and furling is hydraulic, but they would be small motors aloft?

Electric motors, not hydraulic. Too many loses in hydraulic lines that long and small

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Electric motors, not hydraulic. Too many loses in hydraulic lines that long and small

i,m dead against electric, and if you use annealed ss tube you would have more than enough flow
generally we use hyd for everything, sheet winches the lot, in boom furling
build my own powerpacks, keep up the good work

[lazeyjack]

oh and a lot less weight than running big cables

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

i,m dead against electric, and if you use annealed ss tube you would have more than enough flow
generally we use hyd for everything, sheet winches the lot, in boom furling
build my own powerpacks, keep up the good work

Interesting. Do you have experience with SS and carbon fiber mixtures...seems to me I remember some corrosion problems here?

[marshmat]

Corrosion problems indeed.... carbon's cathodic to darn near everything and so the SS would not be happy. The epoxy matrix acts as a bit of an electrical insulator but it's far from corrosion-proof.
lazeyjack, I can see why you might not like seeing electrical for this sort of thing.... in the sizes most of us are used to, electric tends to be used for cheap retail-grade gear, and most hydraulic gear is heavy-duty industrial grade. But if you put the same degree of engineering and the same kind of solid construction into an electrical system as most of us generally see in hydraulic systems, it can be just as reliable. It's just that there's so much poorly engineered electrical gear around that we become cynical about it.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Corrosion problems indeed.... carbon's cathodic to darn near everything and so the SS would not be happy. The epoxy matrix acts as a bit of an electrical insulator but it's far from corrosion-proof.
lazeyjack, I can see why you might not like seeing electrical for this sort of thing.... in the sizes most of us are used to, electric tends to be used for cheap retail-grade gear, and most hydraulic gear is heavy-duty industrial grade. But if you put the same degree of engineering and the same kind of solid construction into an electrical system as most of us generally see in hydraulic systems, it can be just as reliable. It's just that there's so much poorly engineered electrical gear around that we become cynical about it.

i,m just comparing for instance Nimbus, I had hyd, primaries and workstation(halyards reefing in boom, ) THE HYD MOtors were less weight than the elect, they never got tired. You take al the superyachts they all use hyd.
In smaller boats we use, 24vdc, main motor, sitting on top of the tank, demands are low like in 24 hrs this thing may only work 5 mins on passage
As for the electrolosis, well all of the super yachts use carbon fibre masts booms, it is easy to mount tubes on nylon blocks, and in saying this you do not get an isolation with hose becuz its full of wire , right?
Hyds are so powerful, but rarely reach full load, full pressure wheras you watch the volts droop away whern you load dc motors
Coarse with boats , ships like Falcon you use ac pumps to drive the hyds, the gensets are running 24x7 anyways

[brian eiland]

The June/July 07 issue of ShowBoats is out and Maltese Falcon certainly picked up her share of the accolades:

MOST INNOVATIVE SAILING YACHT

BEST SAILING YACHT OVER 40 METERS

BEST SAILING YACHT INTERIOR

HIGHEST TECHNICAL ACHIEVEMENT IN A SAILING YACHT

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

The June/July 07 issue of ShowBoats is out and Maltese Falcon certainly picked up her share of the accolades:

MOST INNOVATIVE SAILING YACHT

BEST SAILING YACHT OVER 40 METERS

BEST SAILING YACHT INTERIOR

HIGHEST TECHNICAL ACHIEVEMENT IN A SAILING YACHT

really so she beat all those mega yachts from NZ, and you say she was finished in Tr?

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by lazeyjack

really so she beat all those mega yachts from NZ, and you say she was finished in Tr?

Yea, but its an Italian shipyard with a location in Turkey. Perini Navi Ciao

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

Yea, but its an Italian shipyard with a location in Turkey. Perini Navi Ciao

fair enuff, but they used local labour that is why they are their, and this is my interest, why I want to do same(in small way)